S7, E4: Building a High-Performance Legacy

SEASON SEVEN, EPISODE FOUR | TRANSCRIPT

 

KIM
Of course, David, we always laugh at him because all he was thinking about is the dollars and cents behind it.

DAVID
Look, I'm an accountant. That's what we do.

INTRO
Welcome to the Art of Custom from Hibbs Homes. In this episode, we are going green. Clients David and Thuy Smith are here to talk about their energy-efficient home built in 2013. Then, Chris Pedigo joins us to revisit the proud green home built in 2016, also serving as a learning lab for future home builders. Enjoy.

KIM
20 house stories for 20 years. That is the focus of this season of the podcast. And in today's episode, we're continuing our home building journey with two projects that have a special place, not only in our history, but also they've left a legacy in the home building community globally.

Melody, it's interesting because anyone who's listened to our podcast has either heard the term Proud Green Home or Active House. Those are very special homes we're going to be talking about with very special clients.

MELODY
They are. And they were both instrumental in not only our history, but again, globally, really helping to educate the community. And, you know, we don't want to gatekeep green home building.

KIM
You know that I call it high performance now. Though, right? But a lot of people still call it green, and that's fine. I just prefer in the term high performance because I think green, and we'll talk about this as we go along, but I think green, there's a connotation with it that is just different than what I think of when I talk about building a high performance home. And there's greenwashing opportunities and things like that. And again, we'll get into that a little bit later.

MELODY
Exactly i mean we're not we're not going out and planting a tree for every home we built

KIM
Or hugging whales that would be kind of hard but yeah but you know although remember i was born on earth day thank you yes that's a way for me just to remind you my birthday is coming up in case you want to buy me anything.

MELODY
Okay well i mean is it is it really coming

KIM
Up can you plant a tree for me.

MELODY
I'll plant a tree in your memory i

KIM
Almost said my memory oh great where am i going.

MELODY
David and Thuy Smith are going to come and join us in studio to talk about their home.

KIM
Yeah, that was really a cool home because it was built as a model of sustainable design and energy efficiency. And it was completed in 2013 in a small community called Webster Groves here in the St. Louis area. Really a lot of history to that community, a lot of history to that build. And it's going to be fun.

I haven't seen them in years. And so for them to be willing to come in and talk about the build and the importance of it and what it meant to them and what it meant to us is really going to be a lot of fun. And David and Thuy, I remember doing the project, just were so funny in many different ways as far as why they wanted to build this home. And we'll approach that with them, too.

MELODY
Thuy's hesitation, I think, is what a lot of people have ideas about green home building. And so we'll let them explain to you why she was pretty hesitant.

KIM
She was. And then we have another project. It's called the Proud Green Home. And that was completed back in 2016 in another community outside the St. Louis area called Wildwood. And like Active House, Proud Green Home not only incorporated some of the highest standards of residential green building, but they were also used, this is what I really liked about it, they were used as learning labs for builders, for architects and students.

And that's important because you and I both agree that helping educate people on how we build and why we build, I think, is something that's very important. And quite frankly, I feel a responsibility to do that.

MELODY
So there's not a lot of builders that after 13 years can bring clients back in to talk about how much they love their homes. But I remember I had my son in a pumpkin seat coming into the Muddy Boots tour. I had just had him and set him down on the floor and let my, at the time, four-year-old run around and take a look at the house.

KIM
And now look at him.

MELODY
I know. Now he's going to put me in a wheelchair.

KIM
He's a funny kid. But this isn't about him. This is about whether you're a builder, a homeowner, or sustainability enthusiast. There's really something for you to learn from both of these stories.

MELODY
So let's get inspired.

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<v Music>

KIM
The space over the garage we're talking about right now, what do you use it for? I know it was originally going to be, you were brewing beer.

DAVID
Yeah, it was originally a brewery. Yeah. You know, home brewery that we custom built out. And for my 40th birthday, Thuy surprised me with a bathroom up there. How do you surprise someone with a bathroom,

KIM
thuy?

THUY
It just happened because he was always gone, you know, because of the tax season and stuff. So they just did it while he was gone. CPA, you were working.

KIM
And so you had it finished out. That is so funny.

THUY
Because once in a while, you know, especially when CJ was so young, he would have parties up there. Like, you know, poker or whatever. And they're like, can we use your bathroom? Like, don't wake my child. And I'm just like. There was a reason to finish it. There was a reason. So really the space ultimately became a workout room and a hangout spot.

KIM
So do you still use it?

DAVID
Not so much. Not so much.

KIM
Well, you look fit. So you're doing something.

DAVID
Yeah, we're trying to redo it. We were going to give it to Cameron for her friends to kind of hang out.

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<v DAVID>And we're like, you paint it, you pick out your furniture, whatever.

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<v DAVID>And it just never happened because she's so busy.

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<v KIM>Well, you all are very busy. We were talking about what you're doing.

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<v KIM>And CJ, she's going off to college.

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<v DAVID>And you started this project when she was, what, in Montessori?

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<v DAVID>Yes. Four years, five years old. And she's going to college.

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<v KIM>Oh, my goodness. Time flies. But I just remember.

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<v DAVID>And we don't age.

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<v KIM>No.

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<v DAVID>Not at all.

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<v KIM>No. Well, you guys don't.

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<v DAVID>Benjamin Button's here.

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<v KIM>I just remember, you know, how her room and the colors and the bunk bed and

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<v KIM>just everything about it.

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<v KIM>And has it changed? Has her room changed?

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<v DAVID>Oh, yeah. It's changed a few times.

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<v KIM>Colors?

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<v DAVID>Yeah, she's gotten older. She's changed the colors. She's done her own decorations.

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<v DAVID>Now she's back to, you know, light gray.

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<v DAVID>Of course, she did add the obligatory LED lights all around her room.

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<v DAVID>Oh, my gosh. Got to have the lights.

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<v KIM>I mean, you have to have lights in her college dorm, too. Oh, really?

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<v DAVID>Okay. Yeah, you do. Okay. Okay.

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<v KIM>So we're talking about 10 years ago, at least, and it's amazing how time flies.

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<v KIM>So let's jump all the way back. Like, I'm never going to forget a tweet because

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<v KIM>when Chef Day had gotten together with David and they were talking about this potential project,

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<v KIM>I never forget you were very concerned that your beautiful house was going to

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<v KIM>look like some sort of a dome and it was going to be some sort of a weird color and everything else.

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<v DAVID>Oh, my gosh. And to this day, to this day, we still get people asking about

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<v DAVID>the color. You know how many homes in Webster Groves after we moved in turned

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<v DAVID>the gray color that we have?

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<v KIM>It's a beautiful color.

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<v DAVID>Yeah.

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<v KIM>Everybody wants to know what the color is.

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<v DAVID>Yeah. I remember Father's Day one year. I had a lady, like, knock on my door and she was like...

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<v DAVID>Here is my Sherman Williams paint palette. What color do you have on your house?

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<v DAVID>And I'm just like, I'm hosting like a dinner party right now.

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<v KIM>It's a James Hardy color. I'd have to go look it up. It's iron ore or something,

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<v KIM>but it's a beautiful color.

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<v DAVID>It works well. It works well. We still get compliments.

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<v KIM>Everybody's welcome. Well, the design of the house, too, this is a very highly

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<v KIM>efficient, et cetera, et cetera, home.

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<v KIM>But it's not round. It's not a dome. It doesn't look funky.

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<v KIM>And that was one of your big concerns. Of course, David, we always laugh at

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<v KIM>him because all he was thinking about is the dollars and cents behind it.

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<v DAVID>Look, I'm an accountant. That's what we do. I know. So my big selling point

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<v DAVID>really was I had to sit down or had to call with Jeff originally.

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<v DAVID>Jeff Day, the architect. Jeff Day, the architect.

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<v DAVID>But we were, I mean, ultimately happy with the design. But, yeah,

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<v DAVID>the original selling point, talking about dollars and cents,

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<v DAVID>Jeff said, okay, we've got this new standard and we've got a lot of designers on board.

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<v DAVID>We think we can save you some significant dollars on it. And I said, cool, awesome.

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<v DAVID>I'm on board. Now I got to just sell it to Thuy.

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<v DAVID>I got home, talked to Thuy about this. And she said, no way.

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<v DAVID>I want this place cold in the summer, hot in the winter, and I'm going to the bathroom indoors.

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<v MELODY>I know, right?

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<v DAVID>Because you think of greenhouse,

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<v KIM>Right? Yeah. We actually use the term high performance now because of that very thing. I love it.

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<v DAVID>I love it. I love it.

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<v KIM>So let me just jump back to CJ real quick. How did she enjoy growing up in the house?

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<v KIM>And I know you're still there. I see the photos and things like that.

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<v KIM>And it's been a nice home for you guys.

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<v DAVID>It has. I mean, she's going to miss walking around in our home when it's negative 15.

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<v DAVID>And you know what I'm saying? It's 70 degrees in every single corner of the

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<v DAVID>house. and she's going to be in Boston freezing.

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<v DAVID>Yeah. We've talked about this before, but just with the design envelope and

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<v DAVID>the SIPs panel structure...

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<v Speaker3>I know it was described originally to me,

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<v DAVID>And this is totally true. It is basically like a Coleman cooler in there. It really is.

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<v KIM>And it's- But the beauty is.

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<v DAVID>Is you go anywhere in the house and it is just consistent throughout.

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<v DAVID>Yeah, for sure. There's no hot spots, no cold spots. No.

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<v KIM>So you mentioned SIPs for our listeners, structural insulated panels.

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<v KIM>We've talked about those before from time to time. But one of my favorite photos

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<v KIM>of all time, aside from the one that's actually hanging on our wall as we record

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<v KIM>this podcast of your home, it's still one of our favorite projects.

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<v KIM>But one of my favorite photos ever is when they're, I call it,

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<v KIM>flying in the actual, the roof structure.

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<v KIM>Right. And they have that big triangle.

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<v KIM>I mean, it was a huge Sips panel that they're putting into place.

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<v DAVID>That key piece they just drop right in. Yeah, the key piece.

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<v KIM>And what's interesting about it is you did not have to sacrifice the design

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<v KIM>of your home because you have some tall, beautiful ceilings on the second floor.

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<v KIM>Sure. You have all the windows, all the light, everything you want in there.

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<v DAVID>Too. Well, even one of the cool things about that is that we were able to actually

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<v DAVID>have pretty wide open ceilings, too.

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<v DAVID>Yes. So on the second level, you know, talk about vaulted ceilings, that's it to the max.

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<v DAVID>Yes. There's minimal trusses, minimal activity getting in the way. Yeah.

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<v DAVID>But right after that picture was taken, they put in that tub.

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<v DAVID>Yes. Do you remember that?

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<v KIM>The tub had to go in first. I do remember that.

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<v DAVID>The tub we hardly ever used. I should ask about that.

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<v KIM>Do you use the tub? No. You know, this is what's interesting because— It looks really cool.

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<v DAVID>It seems like a good idea, right? I have so

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<v KIM>Many people ask me, do we have to put a tub in?

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<v DAVID>Yeah.

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<v KIM>And my response to them is, will you use it? If you don't, do not put a tub in your house.

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<v DAVID>We thought we were going to use it. But, you know, that's another thing.

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<v DAVID>Like with Cameron going to college, we're like, okay, we're going to do some

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<v DAVID>little, you know, rearranging.

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<v DAVID>I've been really surprised that...

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<v DAVID>Anytime there's a new project or house getting built, I'm always looking,

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<v DAVID>okay, are they using the SIPs panels? Are they doing that?

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<v DAVID>And I have not seen it. I'm shocked about that.

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<v KIM>I can't sell people on SIPs.

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<v DAVID>I think that is.

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<v KIM>We've used now.

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<v DAVID>To me, that's like the greatest.

00:11:35.398 --> 00:11:40.158
<v KIM>We're just beginning to design one in Utah. The insulation products available

00:11:40.158 --> 00:11:44.958
<v KIM>allow us to do a two-by-six wall with upgraded insulation, thorough caulk and

00:11:44.958 --> 00:11:48.398
<v KIM>seal, et cetera, et cetera, which is a great performing package,

00:11:48.398 --> 00:11:50.298
<v KIM>but it's still not a SIPs home.

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<v KIM>And, you know, I talked to Matt just the other day because he's going to help

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<v KIM>us with that one in Utah. And he just recently built another Sips home locally.

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<v DAVID>Is he using Sips?

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<v KIM>Yeah. Oh, gosh, yeah. He also is working with another client who's building with Sips.

00:12:04.718 --> 00:12:10.178
<v KIM>It's hard for the average person to really understand the benefit of the Sips

00:12:10.178 --> 00:12:13.818
<v KIM>homes because it seems a little bit unusual to them, right?

00:12:13.958 --> 00:12:19.018
<v KIM>And some people are slow to warm to change. So we were just obviously very pleased

00:12:19.018 --> 00:12:23.898
<v KIM>when you all said, we trust that whatever is being built makes sense.

00:12:23.998 --> 00:12:27.418
<v KIM>You absolutely have one of the only Sips homes in the St. Louis area.

00:12:27.578 --> 00:12:29.038
<v KIM>It is an awesome structure.

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<v DAVID>So not only is it very well insulated, but again, I mentioned those high ceilings. It's quiet.

00:12:36.178 --> 00:12:40.438
<v DAVID>But then also we have minimal need for interior structure too.

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<v KIM>Yeah, that's true. I mean, even the staircase, I remember the staircase from

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<v KIM>the basement all the way up. to the top. It's wide open.

00:12:47.838 --> 00:12:48.178
<v DAVID>Oh, yeah.

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<v KIM>From your perspective of just, you mentioned this, David, comfort,

00:12:51.878 --> 00:12:54.978
<v KIM>very comfortable home. You mentioned floor to floor, room to room.

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<v KIM>You're comfortable with it.

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<v KIM>What are some of the other benefits you like of it?

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<v DAVID>Well, the lighting, of course.

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<v KIM>The lighting.

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<v DAVID>You know, even like those- Which the skylights help. That's a huge part of it.

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<v DAVID>Those three days, you still get a lot of light.

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<v KIM>I think you have 11 total skylights, if I'm not mistaken, somewhere in that area.

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<v DAVID>I believe so. That sounds about right. Yeah.

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<v KIM>But when you moved into the new home, obviously, the SIPS construction,

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<v KIM>the HVAC, and just everything, much, much better.

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<v DAVID>Yeah. I just felt.

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<v DAVID>breathing it's clean and i don't

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<v DAVID>know i i felt with like with an old house you

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<v DAVID>know you have a lot of you know you had to clean

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<v DAVID>the system out you know all the time we cj and i have really bad allergies we

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<v DAVID>have really bad allergies hardly any allergies in our new home seriously none

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<v DAVID>you know like we have seasonal stuff you know but i just felt like it was different

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<v DAVID>we didn't have that mold kind of problem.

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<v KIM>And part of it too is simply because of most newly constructed homes are built

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<v KIM>so they don't necessarily focus on that, what we call the thermal envelope,

00:13:57.904 --> 00:13:59.084
<v KIM>tightening up the envelope.

00:13:59.244 --> 00:14:03.004
<v KIM>So you're controlling the air that's coming in, the air that's being exhausted

00:14:03.004 --> 00:14:07.224
<v KIM>on your house. And so that absolutely helps with the allergies as well.

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<v DAVID>Yeah, for sure. Oh, and then we have two puppies now.

00:14:11.124 --> 00:14:15.264
<v KIM>Oh, now wait a minute. I wasn't aware of that. I thought you had one,

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<v KIM>but I wasn't aware of two. Got her a friend. What are the names?

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<v DAVID>Bailey and Baxter.

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<v KIM>Oh, my God. And what kind of dogs are they?

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<v DAVID>Cocker Spaniel. Love it. If you want a Cocker Spaniel, let us know, right,

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<v KIM>David? David, are you on board with these, with the dogs?

00:14:27.964 --> 00:14:29.504
<v DAVID>He's not on board. Do I have a choice?

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<v KIM>No. Well, with CJ going off to school, you need some life in the house.

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<v DAVID>Right, a little activity, something to keep us walking.

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<v KIM>I remember when we were building the house and the compliments that we as the

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<v KIM>builders used to get about, oh, my gosh, it is such a beautiful home and how

00:14:48.084 --> 00:14:50.184
<v KIM>it fits into the neighborhood. Do you still get those comments?

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<v DAVID>Yeah, I do. I get, you know, it's a walking neighborhood. Yeah.

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<v DAVID>So we have a lot of families, you know, a lot of questions, like I told you, on the paint.

00:15:00.544 --> 00:15:01.104
<v KIM>I'll have to.

00:15:01.104 --> 00:15:05.304
<v DAVID>Get you the paint. Look, you even talk about, hey, you can make this green home

00:15:05.304 --> 00:15:08.144
<v DAVID>or what do you call it? Active living or something. High performance.

00:15:08.244 --> 00:15:08.744
<v KIM>High performance.

00:15:08.784 --> 00:15:12.304
<v DAVID>There we go. High performance. The testament to the fact that you can make it,

00:15:12.484 --> 00:15:14.124
<v DAVID>you can design it how you want it.

00:15:14.604 --> 00:15:19.124
<v DAVID>is that we still have people pretty regularly that are shocked that it's a,

00:15:19.364 --> 00:15:21.104
<v DAVID>at this point, only a 13-year-old home.

00:15:21.144 --> 00:15:21.644
<v KIM>Oh, really?

00:15:21.844 --> 00:15:24.484
<v DAVID>When the ones around it are century homes. Yeah, they think,

00:15:24.564 --> 00:15:25.884
<v DAVID>it was like, well, how old is your home?

00:15:26.044 --> 00:15:29.804
<v DAVID>And I'm like, 13 years old, you know, or, you know, something like that.

00:15:29.904 --> 00:15:33.824
<v DAVID>And they're like, no, it's not. I'm like, yeah, it is. But that's Jeff Day.

00:15:34.004 --> 00:15:37.684
<v DAVID>Yeah. Because he really conformed it to fit the community.

00:15:38.064 --> 00:15:41.344
<v KIM>It was very important to you. And it was very important to Jeff.

00:15:41.484 --> 00:15:43.804
<v KIM>And quite frankly, it's very important to the community.

00:15:44.124 --> 00:15:47.924
<v KIM>Because the communities like the Webster's and the Kirkwood's and the Glendale's

00:15:47.924 --> 00:15:50.524
<v KIM>of the St. Louis area, it's tradition. Exactly.

00:15:51.104 --> 00:15:56.024
<v KIM>And, you know, we have really enjoyed working with people who care about that

00:15:56.024 --> 00:15:59.264
<v KIM>integrity. We had another project in Kirkwood, probably 15 years.

00:15:59.545 --> 00:16:05.965
<v KIM>years ago where we actually won an infill of the year award because it fits seamlessly into it.

00:16:06.325 --> 00:16:08.765
<v KIM>And we felt that same way about your home. It was just gorgeous.

00:16:09.105 --> 00:16:12.665
<v KIM>David, where did you grow up? Were you in the Brentwood area? You were local.

00:16:12.925 --> 00:16:17.365
<v DAVID>I actually grew up in Webster. Okay. One block from where the house is. One block.

00:16:17.925 --> 00:16:23.285
<v DAVID>So again, you talk about the design was important to us and being in that Webster feel.

00:16:23.525 --> 00:16:27.185
<v DAVID>Okay. So I grew up around it. And so, yeah, when we did the design and work

00:16:27.185 --> 00:16:29.125
<v DAVID>with Jeff, we said, I want tall windows.

00:16:29.685 --> 00:16:31.745
<v DAVID>The door handles were important.

00:16:32.605 --> 00:16:36.885
<v DAVID>How do we identify those? Yeah, they just dribbled the size of his house, his childhood house.

00:16:37.165 --> 00:16:37.925
<v KIM>Where'd you grow up?

00:16:38.265 --> 00:16:38.685
<v DAVID>Oakville.

00:16:38.945 --> 00:16:40.685
<v KIM>Oakville, okay. Yeah. Where'd you meet?

00:16:41.025 --> 00:16:44.125
<v DAVID>At a party. Yeah, it was a graduation party, I think. Yeah.

00:16:44.545 --> 00:16:48.885
<v KIM>So you meet, you eventually get married, you're living in Brentwood?

00:16:49.625 --> 00:16:54.965
<v DAVID>No. No. We got married in 97. Okay. We moved to Concord, New Hampshire.

00:16:55.405 --> 00:16:56.265
<v KIM>Oh, my goodness.

00:16:56.265 --> 00:16:59.425
<v DAVID>Yeah, we lived up in New England for a couple of years. Yeah. Because I know

00:16:59.425 --> 00:17:01.365
<v KIM>Your dad was a CPA too.

00:17:01.505 --> 00:17:05.625
<v DAVID>Right? Yeah, so my dad actually, so I grew up in Webster. My dad had a CPA practice

00:17:05.625 --> 00:17:08.045
<v DAVID>for many, many years in Brentwood.

00:17:08.485 --> 00:17:12.565
<v DAVID>But for us, we did our own thing, moved around a bunch. And then we went back

00:17:12.565 --> 00:17:14.365
<v DAVID>to, well, came to Indiana.

00:17:14.685 --> 00:17:17.525
<v DAVID>And we lived in Indiana for, what, three and a half years? And then we moved

00:17:17.525 --> 00:17:20.565
<v DAVID>back home, which we wanted to be back home.

00:17:20.725 --> 00:17:22.845
<v KIM>And that, is that when you moved into the bungalow?

00:17:23.125 --> 00:17:24.745
<v DAVID>That is, yeah. Gotcha. Yeah.

00:17:24.745 --> 00:17:29.525
<v KIM>Before Jeff Day, the architect, got a hold of you, were you thinking about moving?

00:17:29.525 --> 00:17:32.005
<v KIM>You must have been. And were you thinking about building?

00:17:32.385 --> 00:17:36.385
<v DAVID>We were thinking of extension, like, I think. Yeah, yeah.

00:17:36.545 --> 00:17:40.625
<v DAVID>Yeah, originally, our original connection with Jeff was we had the Brentwood

00:17:40.625 --> 00:17:43.045
<v DAVID>house, and we did an extension on that.

00:17:43.105 --> 00:17:46.265
<v DAVID>And we got connected with Jeff Day through another friend of ours.

00:17:46.385 --> 00:17:50.325
<v DAVID>We did do an expansion on the Brentwood house. And then a couple years into

00:17:50.325 --> 00:17:54.405
<v DAVID>that, as our daughter was getting older, I say older, she was four years old

00:17:54.405 --> 00:17:58.845
<v DAVID>at the time, we thought, I think maybe it's time for us to look for a bigger house.

00:17:59.225 --> 00:18:03.645
<v DAVID>And so we started exploring the idea of actually building and what that even entailed.

00:18:04.524 --> 00:18:09.844
<v DAVID>One random afternoon, I called up Jeff just to get his thoughts on what the process even was.

00:18:09.944 --> 00:18:13.124
<v DAVID>Like, how do you go about it? We had no idea. We've never built a house.

00:18:13.324 --> 00:18:17.784
<v DAVID>We didn't have any connections with building a house. So I was really just curious about it.

00:18:18.064 --> 00:18:21.744
<v DAVID>And so Jeff walked me through the process, what it was, the different options.

00:18:22.044 --> 00:18:25.824
<v DAVID>And that's actually when he presented the idea of Active House USA.

00:18:26.204 --> 00:18:30.144
<v KIM>Yeah, and Active House is construction standards that we were building to.

00:18:30.584 --> 00:18:33.584
<v KIM>It really involved a lot of different things. The thermal envelope,

00:18:33.624 --> 00:18:37.844
<v KIM>it involved lighting, it involved paint colors, you know, too.

00:18:38.164 --> 00:18:39.544
<v DAVID>How many windows did you have?

00:18:39.544 --> 00:18:42.364
<v KIM>How many windows? It involved the windows and everything else.

00:18:42.484 --> 00:18:47.744
<v KIM>Yeah, I'm glad Melody is handing me notes here just to prompt my memory. Thanks, Melody.

00:18:47.844 --> 00:18:51.284
<v DAVID>She's trying to be sly about it. I know, right? You just turned her on.

00:18:51.384 --> 00:18:55.384
<v KIM>But it was. It was the first prototype ever built in North America.

00:18:55.864 --> 00:18:59.284
<v KIM>When Jeff came to you, did he mention infill construction?

00:18:59.284 --> 00:19:03.844
<v KIM>Because infill is totally different. It's hard to find the right lot in which

00:19:03.844 --> 00:19:07.924
<v KIM>to build because a lot of times when we think about the high-performance homes

00:19:07.924 --> 00:19:11.304
<v KIM>or the green homes, you know, you want to have them facing the right direction

00:19:11.304 --> 00:19:14.224
<v KIM>for this or that or overhangs, and there's a lot of things that go into it.

00:19:14.384 --> 00:19:18.264
<v KIM>Did he talk to you about infill construction? Is that what you were maybe considering?

00:19:18.544 --> 00:19:21.364
<v DAVID>Well, that was actually really what we wanted to do.

00:19:21.504 --> 00:19:22.604
<v KIM>Because you wanted to be in Webster.

00:19:22.604 --> 00:19:27.484
<v DAVID>We wanted to be in Webster or in Kirkwood or in Brentwood. And for those that

00:19:27.484 --> 00:19:30.404
<v DAVID>are familiar with the area, there's not a whole lot of vacant lots.

00:19:31.144 --> 00:19:32.704
<v KIM>Yeah, the number might be zero.

00:19:32.984 --> 00:19:36.644
<v DAVID>I think it might be less than zero, really. But really, yeah,

00:19:36.764 --> 00:19:39.064
<v DAVID>so that's what we wanted, not only because we were familiar with it,

00:19:39.124 --> 00:19:42.764
<v DAVID>but it's also where we work. So work, live, try and keep things close.

00:19:43.252 --> 00:19:46.232
<v DAVID>And I think even at the time, Kim, I think you had even mentioned,

00:19:46.332 --> 00:19:51.752
<v DAVID>hey, you might have some lots or potential lots either in Kirkwood or other areas.

00:19:51.972 --> 00:19:56.112
<v DAVID>Well, we were fortunate enough to actually stumble across a house in Webster

00:19:56.112 --> 00:20:00.152
<v DAVID>that we were able to acquire, do a teardown, and use that lot.

00:20:00.472 --> 00:20:04.852
<v KIM>And what's interesting is we repurposed some of the material on the inside.

00:20:04.972 --> 00:20:07.652
<v KIM>That house was in very, very rough shape.

00:20:07.752 --> 00:20:11.112
<v DAVID>It was in tough shape. Yeah, we talk about the things that we repurpose.

00:20:11.112 --> 00:20:15.212
<v DAVID>Here's one of the coolest things that your team did, and it was kind of a surprise,

00:20:15.592 --> 00:20:19.392
<v DAVID>but the shipping crates, I don't know what materials it was,

00:20:19.532 --> 00:20:21.652
<v DAVID>but your team took the shipping crates,

00:20:22.072 --> 00:20:27.332
<v DAVID>took the wood, planed it, and actually made our countertop for the kitchen out

00:20:27.332 --> 00:20:28.432
<v DAVID>of the materials, which was pretty wild.

00:20:28.672 --> 00:20:30.972
<v DAVID>Then over time it expanded and we had to get something else.

00:20:31.412 --> 00:20:32.932
<v DAVID>We had to do something else eventually.

00:20:33.132 --> 00:20:34.572
<v KIM>We just had to mention that.

00:20:34.692 --> 00:20:40.132
<v DAVID>It was really cool out of the gate. The advice is don't put a dishwasher underneath

00:20:40.132 --> 00:20:43.572
<v DAVID>a wood thing, so the steam from the dishwasher. Yeah.

00:20:43.852 --> 00:20:46.692
<v KIM>I remember that some of the concrete from that home, though,

00:20:46.772 --> 00:20:51.292
<v KIM>was actually crushed up, and we brought it back and used it underneath the slab of the house.

00:20:51.472 --> 00:20:57.152
<v KIM>So the house that was deconstructed was repurposed as much as possible.

00:20:57.272 --> 00:21:00.532
<v KIM>That's part of what we do is we, you know, a lot of times, I think Habitat did

00:21:00.532 --> 00:21:03.592
<v KIM>try to come in. They either salvaged some of it. They did.

00:21:03.792 --> 00:21:04.912
<v DAVID>They did. Doors and windows.

00:21:04.912 --> 00:21:09.532
<v KIM>So they can sell that again at their restores and use the funds to build new

00:21:09.532 --> 00:21:10.752
<v KIM>houses for those who need it.

00:21:10.892 --> 00:21:13.172
<v KIM>So it's kind of part of our process and what we do.

00:21:13.859 --> 00:21:16.959
<v KIM>Now, one of the things that we did during the project, too,

00:21:17.079 --> 00:21:21.479
<v KIM>which we were very grateful that you allowed us to do it, was try to help educate

00:21:21.479 --> 00:21:25.339
<v KIM>not only other trades in our industry, but also the general public,

00:21:25.339 --> 00:21:29.459
<v KIM>anybody who wanted to walk the house. We had a Muddy Boots tour after we were framed up.

00:21:29.459 --> 00:21:30.039
<v DAVID>Yeah, and a Lunch and Learn.

00:21:30.179 --> 00:21:33.319
<v KIM>And a Lunch and Learn. It was a lot of fun. We had Lunch and Learns and things like that.

00:21:33.459 --> 00:21:36.479
<v KIM>But we wanted to use it as an educational opportunity because,

00:21:36.879 --> 00:21:40.219
<v KIM>quite frankly, I think there's only two of us who are building this way in the St.

00:21:40.339 --> 00:21:43.219
<v KIM>Louis area, and there's still only two of us building this way.

00:21:43.219 --> 00:21:45.319
<v KIM>So for us to be able to help— Isn't it?

00:21:45.399 --> 00:21:48.519
<v DAVID>It's still surprising to me, though, that it hasn't taken off.

00:21:48.919 --> 00:21:52.919
<v DAVID>There hasn't been an interest. I mentioned it earlier that shocking that people

00:21:52.919 --> 00:21:53.939
<v DAVID>aren't using the SIPs panels.

00:21:54.079 --> 00:21:57.399
<v DAVID>But I think it's—I don't know. I'm not in the industry, but it seems like a

00:21:57.399 --> 00:21:58.259
<v DAVID>pretty awesome way to build.

00:21:58.399 --> 00:22:01.939
<v KIM>It's structural from a structural standpoint, from a comfort standpoint,

00:22:02.139 --> 00:22:03.459
<v KIM>from a convenience standpoint.

00:22:03.799 --> 00:22:07.539
<v KIM>Now, you do as an engineer, you'll appreciate this. You have to be very well

00:22:07.539 --> 00:22:10.639
<v KIM>buttoned up up front. You have to know where all your penetrations are and everything

00:22:10.639 --> 00:22:15.439
<v KIM>else. It's very important. You mentioned you were an engineer earlier before you became a CPA.

00:22:15.679 --> 00:22:19.859
<v KIM>So from the engineer standpoint, put your engineer hat on for a minute.

00:22:20.199 --> 00:22:24.459
<v KIM>Had you ever heard of SIPS? And then when you saw the construction going on, what did you think of it?

00:22:24.639 --> 00:22:29.019
<v DAVID>I had heard of it before, but my experience wasn't in the construction trades.

00:22:29.199 --> 00:22:34.079
<v DAVID>So I had heard of it more as a curiosity, but didn't really know much about it.

00:22:34.439 --> 00:22:39.519
<v DAVID>So to actually see it, hear it, I thought, wow, that's pretty cool. Let's get on board.

00:22:40.519 --> 00:22:42.059
<v KIM>And then you saw them going up.

00:22:42.279 --> 00:22:45.939
<v DAVID>Oh, yeah. I think it took two days. It wasn't very long. Two or three days from

00:22:45.939 --> 00:22:47.139
<v DAVID>the first piece coming in.

00:22:47.139 --> 00:22:51.359
<v KIM>That's one of the benefits to using the panels like that is the actual framing

00:22:51.359 --> 00:22:53.619
<v KIM>part of the construction goes much more quickly.

00:22:54.039 --> 00:22:59.419
<v KIM>So what is the best part of the house? I mean, obviously, it's designed the way, you know, kind of.

00:22:59.419 --> 00:23:00.299
<v DAVID>I love my porch.

00:23:00.659 --> 00:23:01.619
<v KIM>Oh, that, right.

00:23:01.799 --> 00:23:02.999
<v DAVID>My porch, right. I love my porch.

00:23:03.159 --> 00:23:04.039
<v KIM>Do you guys sit out there?

00:23:04.159 --> 00:23:06.059
<v DAVID>All the time. We do. Yeah, if the weather's nice.

00:23:06.079 --> 00:23:06.479
<v KIM>And people are walking by.

00:23:06.599 --> 00:23:11.559
<v DAVID>They put a bar out there. Yeah, we got a bar. There's a TV on the front porch I mean...

00:23:13.455 --> 00:23:17.095
<v DAVID>David, that's the best. So really, yeah, in the summertime, we sit there.

00:23:17.515 --> 00:23:20.115
<v KIM>Halloween Christmas. I bet Halloween is just the best. We'll have our cocktails.

00:23:20.115 --> 00:23:21.335
<v DAVID>And sit on the porch.

00:23:21.455 --> 00:23:23.095
<v Speaker3>You know, you see the neighbors go by.

00:23:23.215 --> 00:23:24.015
<v DAVID>We were waving at them.

00:23:24.175 --> 00:23:25.215
<v KIM>And that's Americana.

00:23:25.935 --> 00:23:27.895
<v DAVID>That's Webster Grove. That's Americana for sure.

00:23:28.055 --> 00:23:28.575
<v KIM>That's Webster.

00:23:28.575 --> 00:23:32.255
<v DAVID>We did install a book nook in the front of the house. So for those that aren't

00:23:32.255 --> 00:23:36.195
<v DAVID>aware, it's just a little, it's a tiny house on the front yard.

00:23:36.715 --> 00:23:39.535
<v DAVID>And people can stop in and get books. Trade books in and out,

00:23:39.875 --> 00:23:41.715
<v DAVID>which is really good. I have a reader.

00:23:42.035 --> 00:23:44.855
<v DAVID>You know, my girl's a reader. and that's why we...

00:23:44.855 --> 00:23:45.635
<v KIM>That is really cool.

00:23:45.955 --> 00:23:49.795
<v DAVID>If I was more clever and better with tools, I would have made it look just like our house,

00:23:49.875 --> 00:23:52.515
<v KIM>But... But you've only got so much time.

00:23:52.595 --> 00:23:54.395
<v DAVID>There's only so much time. Only so much time.

00:23:54.615 --> 00:23:58.655
<v KIM>Well, it's a beautiful home. It's a beautiful story. When we built the house,

00:23:58.675 --> 00:24:03.615
<v KIM>you have a garage behind, and on the second floor, we had kind of finished it

00:24:03.615 --> 00:24:07.595
<v KIM>out where you could come back at some point, and at the time, you were very...

00:24:07.595 --> 00:24:11.915
<v KIM>I guess it was a starting hobby of yours to brew beer, and so you wanted it

00:24:11.915 --> 00:24:16.075
<v KIM>finished out that you could actually do more of that up on the second floor.

00:24:16.275 --> 00:24:21.295
<v DAVID>Yeah, in fact, kind of a funny thing there when we were laying out the electrical needs.

00:24:21.495 --> 00:24:21.735
<v KIM>Yeah.

00:24:22.115 --> 00:24:26.195
<v DAVID>I had in my mind, hey, I'm going to make this an electric brewery.

00:24:26.255 --> 00:24:30.515
<v DAVID>And so there's going to be certain electrical needs to get hot water and do instant hot water.

00:24:30.755 --> 00:24:34.895
<v DAVID>And I think at the time I roughly calculated and I told one of the other gentlemen

00:24:35.415 --> 00:24:39.135
<v DAVID>that was on the project, I said, hey, I think I'm going to need a 200 amp service for the garage.

00:24:39.155 --> 00:24:40.315
<v KIM>For the garage alone.

00:24:40.735 --> 00:24:44.035
<v DAVID>And he looks at me and he goes, we don't even have that in the whole house.

00:24:44.895 --> 00:24:46.095
<v DAVID>I go, we'll see what you can do.

00:24:46.355 --> 00:24:50.415
<v KIM>Oh, my gosh. And so over the years, you say it's become more of a,

00:24:50.555 --> 00:24:54.035
<v KIM>not a man cave per se, but we put the bathroom up there.

00:24:54.095 --> 00:24:58.335
<v KIM>So now you have the bathroom and it's become more of a hangout space.

00:24:58.635 --> 00:25:01.115
<v DAVID>It's a nice extra space, for sure. And again, kind of like a lot of Webster

00:25:01.115 --> 00:25:05.315
<v DAVID>properties, the home, you might call it a carriage house or the garage,

00:25:05.555 --> 00:25:08.115
<v DAVID>it's a separate structure from the house.

00:25:08.615 --> 00:25:12.075
<v DAVID>And so you can do some unique things with it. Like I said, we did the brewery

00:25:12.075 --> 00:25:14.975
<v DAVID>for a while. It's been a workout space. Hangout space.

00:25:14.975 --> 00:25:17.095
<v KIM>It's been a hangout spot. For CJ and her friends.

00:25:17.375 --> 00:25:19.095
<v DAVID>Exactly. Exactly. Yeah.

00:25:19.415 --> 00:25:22.975
<v KIM>And you guys aren't going anywhere, right? No plans on selling the house or

00:25:22.975 --> 00:25:26.775
<v KIM>moving or good. No. Well, if you remember, it's in the contract. You can't.

00:25:26.835 --> 00:25:27.295
<v DAVID>Can't sell it?

00:25:27.335 --> 00:25:27.975
<v KIM>You can't sell it.

00:25:28.615 --> 00:25:29.895
<v MELODY>Although a lot of people are like,

00:25:30.015 --> 00:25:31.375
<v DAVID>Are you going to move once CJ

00:25:31.375 --> 00:25:32.015
<v MELODY>Goes to college?

00:25:32.015 --> 00:25:35.755
<v KIM>Can you imagine, though, if your house ever did go on the market simply because

00:25:35.755 --> 00:25:39.115
<v KIM>of the aesthetics and the color of the siding alone?

00:25:39.515 --> 00:25:42.795
<v KIM>It's just a beautiful home. And like I said, that's why we have it hanging on

00:25:42.795 --> 00:25:46.295
<v KIM>our wall in our office. It's always one of our favorite projects, part of our journey.

00:25:46.555 --> 00:25:50.275
<v DAVID>Yeah, and I think it's a great location. Yeah. You can't beat the location where it's at.

00:25:50.415 --> 00:25:55.515
<v KIM>It just all fell into place where you were able to find the house that you could

00:25:55.515 --> 00:25:58.635
<v KIM>deconstruct and build your home there. It's right where you wanted it. We're very fortunate.

00:25:58.855 --> 00:26:01.935
<v KIM>Now you're right up the road with your office and all. It's a pretty cool story.

00:26:02.115 --> 00:26:02.615
<v DAVID>We've been lucky.

00:26:03.120 --> 00:26:10.480
<v Music>

00:26:10.628 --> 00:26:13.468
<v KIM>That was a fun interview, don't you think, Melody? Yeah, it was great.

00:26:13.548 --> 00:26:14.828
<v KIM>Such a sweet family. Yeah.

00:26:15.068 --> 00:26:20.188
<v KIM>And it, quite frankly, was fun to look back on 13 years. I didn't think it had

00:26:20.188 --> 00:26:21.728
<v KIM>been 13. I thought it had been 10.

00:26:22.048 --> 00:26:24.708
<v KIM>They said 13 years since we built their home.

00:26:24.848 --> 00:26:27.408
<v MELODY>My math wasn't mathing because I thought it was 10 as well.

00:26:28.288 --> 00:26:32.428
<v KIM>Maybe our math is right and there's, oh, never mind. But we welcome back Chris

00:26:32.428 --> 00:26:33.948
<v KIM>Pettigo into our podcast.

00:26:34.148 --> 00:26:37.588
<v KIM>Chris is our general manager in the St. Louis office. us very actively involved

00:26:37.588 --> 00:26:40.888
<v KIM>in a lot of our high-performance building here in the St. Louis area.

00:26:41.368 --> 00:26:44.688
<v KIM>Chris, you remember one of the fun things and the benefit of the project we

00:26:44.688 --> 00:26:50.488
<v KIM>did with them, the Active House, is that we used it as an educational opportunity for the St.

00:26:50.548 --> 00:26:53.788
<v KIM>Louis construction industry and, quite frankly, the general population.

00:26:54.048 --> 00:26:59.128
<v KIM>We held a couple of open houses and got a chance to show off the home,

00:26:59.148 --> 00:27:01.448
<v KIM>if you will, and explain to people what we were doing.

00:27:01.468 --> 00:27:05.688
<v KIM>And that was really part of the fun of the project. And you were involved in

00:27:05.688 --> 00:27:06.788
<v KIM>that. Yeah, absolutely.

00:27:07.008 --> 00:27:10.588
<v CHRIS>And I think that's with all of our builds, that's an integral part of what we

00:27:10.588 --> 00:27:15.148
<v CHRIS>do is whether it's with our homeowners or potential clients or just like you said, general people.

00:27:15.328 --> 00:27:20.888
<v CHRIS>And it's always a project educating our trades as we go as to how you build a green home.

00:27:20.888 --> 00:27:26.088
<v KIM>And it's interesting because you are doing a lot of sales work, obviously.

00:27:26.248 --> 00:27:29.368
<v KIM>Now, you put on many different hats. You've got a sales hat,

00:27:29.528 --> 00:27:33.588
<v KIM>a quality control, general manager. He wears a lot of different hats,

00:27:33.688 --> 00:27:34.588
<v KIM>sort of like Melody does.

00:27:35.028 --> 00:27:38.768
<v KIM>When you're wearing those hats, when you put your sales hat on and start talking

00:27:38.768 --> 00:27:42.908
<v KIM>to people about Hibbs Homes and high performance, you're basically doing the

00:27:42.908 --> 00:27:48.508
<v KIM>same thing. you're helping educate them on how we build and the benefits of how we build.

00:27:48.688 --> 00:27:51.188
<v KIM>And whether it's the St. Louis market or the Park City market,

00:27:51.368 --> 00:27:53.908
<v KIM>that's who we are and what we made a name doing.

00:27:54.228 --> 00:27:56.848
<v CHRIS>Right. And whether it's actual, tangible, like,

00:27:57.368 --> 00:28:02.588
<v CHRIS>cost efficiency and less carbon footprint, or if it's like the intangible benefits

00:28:02.588 --> 00:28:03.488
<v CHRIS>that we talked to them about,

00:28:03.568 --> 00:28:07.108
<v CHRIS>but things like that your house is more comfortable and your house is a healthier

00:28:07.108 --> 00:28:09.708
<v CHRIS>home and things that you can't actually quantify necessarily,

00:28:09.708 --> 00:28:12.468
<v CHRIS>but there are a lot of benefits on both sides of that table.

00:28:12.648 --> 00:28:17.368
<v KIM>And it's funny because those are two of the qualities that David and Tui mentioned specifically.

00:28:17.928 --> 00:28:21.548
<v KIM>Their home was much more comfortable no matter if they were down in the basement

00:28:21.548 --> 00:28:22.808
<v KIM>or up on the second floor.

00:28:23.068 --> 00:28:27.228
<v KIM>And then Tui was talking about the clean indoor air quality that she and her

00:28:27.228 --> 00:28:32.428
<v KIM>daughter CJ have allergies and yet inside this house they have not had problems.

00:28:32.768 --> 00:28:36.088
<v KIM>Those are some of the things that we do help our clients understand.

00:28:36.308 --> 00:28:41.288
<v KIM>We also help them understand that it does not have to cost a lot more to build

00:28:41.288 --> 00:28:43.468
<v KIM>the way we build. We can walk them through.

00:28:43.708 --> 00:28:48.068
<v KIM>If they just want a well-built above code home, terrific.

00:28:48.288 --> 00:28:53.088
<v KIM>If they wanted a net zero home, we can do that as well. So there's a lot of options. There are.

00:28:53.168 --> 00:28:57.488
<v CHRIS>There are a lot of options And a lot of times it comes down to weighing the benefit of, say,

00:28:57.688 --> 00:29:01.708
<v CHRIS>upgrades above a very well-built home and weighing those as opposed to what

00:29:01.708 --> 00:29:03.708
<v CHRIS>the cost is and, you know, really

00:29:03.708 --> 00:29:08.608
<v CHRIS>finding that good balance between a good investment and high performance.

00:29:09.028 --> 00:29:11.968
<v MELODY>Well, and Active House actually did achieve net zero.

00:29:12.308 --> 00:29:17.408
<v MELODY>It was certified as a net zero home and they were putting energy back on the grid.

00:29:17.588 --> 00:29:22.848
<v MELODY>Yeah. It was part of the design of the home. And, you know, when we were doing

00:29:22.848 --> 00:29:26.128
<v MELODY>it, we did, we had students from the University of Missouri.

00:29:26.388 --> 00:29:26.968
<v KIM>They did, yes.

00:29:26.968 --> 00:29:30.268
<v MELODY>And we had architects, local architects come through.

00:29:30.508 --> 00:29:34.188
<v MELODY>We had, you know, other folks in the St. Louis building community come through

00:29:34.188 --> 00:29:36.988
<v MELODY>at different points. We talked to Thuy and David about that.

00:29:37.208 --> 00:29:38.968
<v KIM>Yeah, we did what they called muddy boots tours.

00:29:39.228 --> 00:29:43.428
<v MELODY>Yeah. We love those. So there's another home that we actually built that was

00:29:43.428 --> 00:29:47.408
<v MELODY>a sort of lab, you know, a lab of sorts. And, you know, actually,

00:29:47.548 --> 00:29:52.248
<v MELODY>KSDK, your alum, did call Active House a living learning lab.

00:29:52.428 --> 00:29:53.228
<v KIM>Which is true.

00:29:53.428 --> 00:29:54.888
<v MELODY>Yeah, when they did a story on it.

00:29:55.748 --> 00:30:00.248
<v MELODY>Now, we're going to turn our sights to another house that was also the Learning Lab, as I said.

00:30:00.408 --> 00:30:04.988
<v MELODY>It was the Proud Green Home, which was built in 2015 by the Kuntz family.

00:30:05.208 --> 00:30:08.708
<v KIM>Oh, that's 10 years ago. So, David and Tui are probably right.

00:30:09.308 --> 00:30:13.608
<v KIM>That's what happens when the years just keep ticking by and I keep getting older and older.

00:30:13.608 --> 00:30:16.928
<v MELODY>That's what happens when you ask a marketing person to do math, actually. That's true.

00:30:17.908 --> 00:30:19.488
<v KIM>Melody, I think I'm going to buy you a calculator.

00:30:19.748 --> 00:30:20.108
<v MELODY>Yeah, that's true.

00:30:20.108 --> 00:30:24.508
<v KIM>So, it's the Kuntz family. Okay, gotcha. And that was the proud green home that

00:30:24.508 --> 00:30:27.288
<v KIM>we built back in 2015 in the Wildwood area.

00:30:27.468 --> 00:30:30.808
<v MELODY>It was. And we did another Muddy Boots tour during that construction.

00:30:30.928 --> 00:30:35.588
<v MELODY>And it actually was recognized by Build Magazine as the most energy efficient home in Missouri.

00:30:35.748 --> 00:30:36.488
<v KIM>I remember that.

00:30:36.648 --> 00:30:41.728
<v MELODY>And you know what else? What? It also was recognized in 2016 as the most advanced

00:30:41.728 --> 00:30:44.388
<v MELODY>home of the year by the St. Louis Home Builders Association.

00:30:44.808 --> 00:30:47.268
<v KIM>I think we have that award sitting right over on that.

00:30:47.348 --> 00:30:47.768
<v MELODY>We do.

00:30:47.928 --> 00:30:48.428
<v KIM>People over there.

00:30:48.428 --> 00:30:52.368
<v MELODY>You know, and, you know, we were one of the first gold-level certified green

00:30:52.368 --> 00:30:55.768
<v MELODY>homes in the St. Louis area, so always been kind of a local leader.

00:30:56.008 --> 00:30:59.308
<v MELODY>But I think it's really cool that both Proud Green Home and Active House,

00:30:59.528 --> 00:31:04.088
<v MELODY>really on a global level, got—I mean, we had a billboard in Times Square for Active House.

00:31:04.208 --> 00:31:08.788
<v KIM>I remember that. Yeah. Yeah, I have a photo of that still showing that Times

00:31:08.788 --> 00:31:12.128
<v KIM>Square with a picture of Active House on it. That was pretty cool.

00:31:12.268 --> 00:31:17.628
<v KIM>But to your point, that was the first prototype built in North America. Think about that.

00:31:18.083 --> 00:31:22.703
<v KIM>And that was pretty special. And Proud Green Home, there was a very few homes at the time.

00:31:22.843 --> 00:31:25.843
<v KIM>But again, that was back in the day when people were trying to,

00:31:25.943 --> 00:31:27.823
<v KIM>Chris, learn more and more about high performance.

00:31:28.023 --> 00:31:30.883
<v KIM>It's funny because Tui called it green, which back in the day,

00:31:31.003 --> 00:31:32.063
<v KIM>that's what people called it. Right.

00:31:32.263 --> 00:31:36.523
<v KIM>Anymore, I truly prefer the term high performance because I think it's more

00:31:36.523 --> 00:31:38.483
<v KIM>descriptive of what we're actually doing. Absolutely.

00:31:38.743 --> 00:31:44.643
<v KIM>But, I mean, it is a learning curve. And you can't just jump in and build a

00:31:44.643 --> 00:31:49.243
<v KIM>green home or a high-performing home unless you really learn the education and the science behind it.

00:31:49.323 --> 00:31:53.023
<v CHRIS>That's exactly right. And it's an ever-changing field.

00:31:53.223 --> 00:31:57.143
<v CHRIS>You can't just sit on your heels and think what happened this year is going

00:31:57.143 --> 00:32:01.403
<v CHRIS>to be the most efficient and the best way to build a high-efficiency home next year.

00:32:01.463 --> 00:32:05.683
<v CHRIS>As improvements come in equipment and different insulation products and different

00:32:05.683 --> 00:32:09.423
<v CHRIS>products become available, I mean, you have to really stay up on what is the

00:32:09.423 --> 00:32:11.923
<v CHRIS>most efficient product. What is the most efficient equipment?

00:32:12.243 --> 00:32:15.483
<v CHRIS>And then find that, like you said, find that balance between the homeowner's

00:32:15.483 --> 00:32:18.923
<v CHRIS>budget and that high efficiency. But it's an ever-changing field.

00:32:19.083 --> 00:32:22.243
<v KIM>And there's a lot of builders, and I'm not trying to be disrespectful because

00:32:22.243 --> 00:32:27.423
<v KIM>I've said many times during this podcast that across the country and everywhere, St.

00:32:27.463 --> 00:32:31.703
<v KIM>Louis area, Park City, wherever, there are awesome custom home builders.

00:32:31.703 --> 00:32:36.923
<v KIM>But there are many custom home builders who take that term green and try to

00:32:36.923 --> 00:32:42.723
<v KIM>use it in marketing and get people to think I'm building a high-performing or

00:32:42.723 --> 00:32:44.163
<v KIM>a green home, energy-efficient,

00:32:44.403 --> 00:32:49.043
<v KIM>whatever, and they don't have the experience. And that's kind of what we're talking about here.

00:32:49.183 --> 00:32:53.403
<v KIM>You can't just say we do it by putting in appliances or putting in light fixtures.

00:32:53.683 --> 00:32:56.923
<v KIM>There's much more to building a high-performance home, isn't there, Chris?

00:32:56.943 --> 00:32:59.583
<v CHRIS>There is. There's a lot of knowledge base that comes along with it.

00:32:59.583 --> 00:33:04.903
<v CHRIS>And there's also a lot of taking the time to actually perform the work.

00:33:05.023 --> 00:33:06.463
<v CHRIS>I mean, because it is a...

00:33:06.794 --> 00:33:09.654
<v CHRIS>it can slow your process down a little bit. You know, you have to make sure

00:33:09.654 --> 00:33:13.094
<v CHRIS>that you're taking the time to cross the T's and dot the I's that you can't

00:33:13.094 --> 00:33:15.694
<v CHRIS>just say you're doing it. You actually have to take the time to actually go out.

00:33:15.814 --> 00:33:18.794
<v CHRIS>And some of that does come with an effort that's required.

00:33:18.954 --> 00:33:23.094
<v KIM>And I remember with the Kuntz family, Melody, you did a real good job kind of researching this.

00:33:23.174 --> 00:33:26.534
<v KIM>But one of the things I remember about them is when we were introduced to them,

00:33:26.654 --> 00:33:28.094
<v KIM>they were moving to the St.

00:33:28.154 --> 00:33:32.774
<v KIM>Louis area from Texas and their family had severe allergies.

00:33:32.774 --> 00:33:35.434
<v KIM>And that's just what Thuy was talking about, too.

00:33:35.674 --> 00:33:42.054
<v KIM>The indoor air quality in their home made it so much more, I guess, livable, if you will.

00:33:42.194 --> 00:33:45.394
<v KIM>And so that was one of the main things with the Kuntz family.

00:33:45.774 --> 00:33:50.234
<v KIM>And we would actually test some of the materials that we were finishing the

00:33:50.234 --> 00:33:53.554
<v KIM>home with to make sure that there was no reaction to the family.

00:33:53.554 --> 00:33:57.274
<v KIM>As a matter of fact, we're starting a starting design on a new home in Park

00:33:57.274 --> 00:34:03.334
<v KIM>City where that family also has severe reactions to the environment in which they live.

00:34:03.554 --> 00:34:07.534
<v KIM>So, you know, we'll talk more about that as that project progresses.

00:34:07.534 --> 00:34:12.654
<v KIM>But there's more and more people out there who are suffering from allergies

00:34:12.654 --> 00:34:17.794
<v KIM>or effects of the environment in which they live and paying a little bit of

00:34:17.794 --> 00:34:22.974
<v KIM>attention to it and really understanding how you're building the materials you're building with.

00:34:22.974 --> 00:34:27.394
<v KIM>testing the materials and things like that can make a big difference in the comfort of the home.

00:34:27.834 --> 00:34:30.914
<v MELODY>Well, and one of the things, sometimes you don't even realize you're hitting

00:34:30.914 --> 00:34:35.794
<v MELODY>on a sweet spot, but, you know, up here, it is allergy capital of the world.

00:34:35.994 --> 00:34:36.134
<v KIM>Yeah.

00:34:36.394 --> 00:34:39.554
<v MELODY>Anytime I talk to anybody who's relocating, you know, one of the things that

00:34:39.554 --> 00:34:43.394
<v MELODY>I do say is, you know, with this indoor air and keeping things sealed out,

00:34:43.554 --> 00:34:46.994
<v MELODY>you know, the cycling through that tree pollen, because a lot of people also

00:34:46.994 --> 00:34:48.954
<v MELODY>like to build out on acreage.

00:34:49.054 --> 00:34:50.854
<v MELODY>So you've got a ton of pollen out there.

00:34:51.283 --> 00:34:52.063
<v Speaker3>And then, you know,

00:34:52.123 --> 00:34:55.403
<v MELODY>The other sweet spot being high performance up there in Park City is you do

00:34:55.403 --> 00:34:59.643
<v MELODY>have smoke from wildfires and things like that, but that all can come in.

00:34:59.803 --> 00:35:02.823
<v MELODY>And so filtering all of those out of the home, it's like I said,

00:35:03.083 --> 00:35:05.883
<v MELODY>just kind of a sweet spot for building in both markets. It is.

00:35:05.963 --> 00:35:09.203
<v KIM>And that's where, again, I want to say that wonderful builders all around,

00:35:09.403 --> 00:35:14.243
<v KIM>just if that's something indoor air quality or energy efficiency or whatever

00:35:14.243 --> 00:35:18.123
<v KIM>might be your hot button when you're thinking about designing and building your

00:35:18.123 --> 00:35:22.583
<v KIM>home, Make sure that you find the right building partner because it can make

00:35:22.583 --> 00:35:23.803
<v KIM>all the difference in the world.

00:35:23.943 --> 00:35:27.903
<v KIM>You want to make sure that if someone says, we can absolutely build you a home

00:35:27.903 --> 00:35:31.443
<v KIM>with the cleanest indoor air quality possible, make sure that's true.

00:35:31.443 --> 00:35:35.783
<v KIM>Because if for some reason they don't, that can be a big problem down the road.

00:35:36.003 --> 00:35:39.223
<v CHRIS>And it does come into not only air filtration, right?

00:35:39.303 --> 00:35:42.743
<v CHRIS>I mean, that's a big piece of it, your air seal and your air filtration.

00:35:42.743 --> 00:35:46.423
<v CHRIS>But it also comes down to, as you hit on earlier, the building materials that

00:35:46.423 --> 00:35:51.023
<v CHRIS>you're using in the house, because, you know, the quickest way to damage your

00:35:51.023 --> 00:35:54.423
<v CHRIS>indoor air quality is not pay attention to the actual building materials and

00:35:54.423 --> 00:35:55.963
<v CHRIS>the VOCs and things like that.

00:35:56.103 --> 00:35:59.003
<v CHRIS>As you build the house, your adhesives, your paints, your, you know,

00:35:59.103 --> 00:36:02.703
<v CHRIS>even the building materials themselves, the OSB, you have to pay particular

00:36:02.703 --> 00:36:06.783
<v CHRIS>attention to the entire realm or, you know, your indoor air quality is only

00:36:06.783 --> 00:36:07.823
<v CHRIS>as good as that weakest link.

00:36:07.823 --> 00:36:11.463
<v KIM>Yeah, because that off-gassing can go on for years and years and years.

00:36:11.703 --> 00:36:17.483
<v KIM>And to Chris's point, carpet, stains, paints, the finishes of virtually even furniture.

00:36:17.843 --> 00:36:21.043
<v KIM>You just have to pay attention to it all. And you just need to let your builder

00:36:21.043 --> 00:36:26.063
<v KIM>know what your sensitivities are and have them help you walk you through the process.

00:36:26.323 --> 00:36:29.703
<v MELODY>One of the things that we talk about is the clean indoor air.

00:36:29.803 --> 00:36:32.463
<v MELODY>But you walk in and there's no new home smell.

00:36:32.963 --> 00:36:36.183
<v MELODY>You know, it's like people love the new car smell. You're smelling chemicals.

00:36:36.423 --> 00:36:41.383
<v KIM>Yes, exactly. And that's why every, I mean, it starts with our construction with our subfloor.

00:36:41.483 --> 00:36:49.543
<v KIM>We use no VOC, volatile organic compounds. We make sure that we're using no VOC glues.

00:36:50.543 --> 00:36:54.603
<v KIM>adhesives all the way through. And depending upon the susceptibility of the

00:36:54.603 --> 00:36:58.503
<v KIM>client to some of the construction materials, we do different things all the

00:36:58.503 --> 00:36:59.703
<v KIM>way through. So, and I know.

00:36:59.703 --> 00:37:02.363
<v MELODY>That the Kuntz family home also had geothermal.

00:37:02.643 --> 00:37:05.943
<v KIM>Had geothermal. Yeah. So we, geothermal is something, Chris,

00:37:06.023 --> 00:37:07.243
<v KIM>we used to do a lot, correct?

00:37:07.563 --> 00:37:14.503
<v KIM>I mean, it's something that what's happened though is the efficiency of the everyday,

00:37:15.043 --> 00:37:20.523
<v KIM>standard furnaces have become, they've become so much more efficient that you

00:37:20.523 --> 00:37:23.103
<v KIM>kind of lose some of the benefit of going geothermal.

00:37:23.543 --> 00:37:27.203
<v KIM>So we don't knew as much geothermal as we used to, although there are still

00:37:27.203 --> 00:37:30.663
<v KIM>good federal government rebates out there for going geothermal.

00:37:30.943 --> 00:37:34.903
<v KIM>But other manufacturers and other opportunities have come in like heat pumps

00:37:34.903 --> 00:37:37.423
<v KIM>or something that we're starting to do a lot more on.

00:37:37.503 --> 00:37:41.203
<v KIM>And like, I can tell you that in the Northern Utah market, there is a really

00:37:41.203 --> 00:37:42.923
<v KIM>good rebate for heat pumps.

00:37:43.123 --> 00:37:46.943
<v KIM>And so that's the technology that more and more people are going to,

00:37:47.123 --> 00:37:50.763
<v KIM>because if you think about it, geothermal, you have to drill the wells,

00:37:50.803 --> 00:37:56.143
<v KIM>and there was a lot of cost in drilling and casing the wells and everything that goes along with it.

00:37:56.403 --> 00:38:01.623
<v KIM>And so if you can save that cost and put it into an upgraded standard furnace

00:38:01.623 --> 00:38:07.263
<v KIM>system or a heat pump system, I think that's why more and more people are leaning in that direction.

00:38:07.663 --> 00:38:10.883
<v CHRIS>Yeah, this is exactly right. The heat pump technology has come so far over the

00:38:10.883 --> 00:38:14.543
<v CHRIS>past 10 years, that there's still opportunity for geothermal and there's still

00:38:14.543 --> 00:38:15.543
<v CHRIS>times when it makes sense.

00:38:15.543 --> 00:38:19.363
<v CHRIS>And especially if there's a, an alternate use for some of that,

00:38:19.483 --> 00:38:22.923
<v CHRIS>you have that hot water benefit that, that geothermal is creating that hot water.

00:38:23.003 --> 00:38:27.183
<v CHRIS>And if there's a way to, to use that as, as part of another system in the house

00:38:27.183 --> 00:38:28.883
<v CHRIS>or something, then sometimes it makes more sense.

00:38:29.300 --> 00:38:34.540
<v CHRIS>But yeah, it's exactly right. You have to pick which technology and then talk about paybacks.

00:38:35.000 --> 00:38:37.860
<v KIM>I'm glad you mentioned paybacks because that's something that your builder will

00:38:37.860 --> 00:38:40.640
<v KIM>help you with. Understand, okay, here's the cost of the geothermal.

00:38:40.800 --> 00:38:44.280
<v KIM>Here's the cost of a standard system or a heat pump system.

00:38:44.600 --> 00:38:48.700
<v KIM>And with the help of the HVAC contractor, you can actually do a cost analysis

00:38:48.700 --> 00:38:51.680
<v KIM>and decide, okay, what is my payback for the cost differences?

00:38:51.940 --> 00:38:56.960
<v KIM>And Chris and I are pretty much in line with this. we say that anything that's

00:38:56.960 --> 00:39:02.400
<v KIM>more than seven years is certainly not worth it. And sometimes I even say go five years.

00:39:02.680 --> 00:39:06.000
<v KIM>But the reason behind that is because of the studies that come out and basically

00:39:06.000 --> 00:39:09.060
<v KIM>say that the average person stays in their home seven years.

00:39:09.380 --> 00:39:13.700
<v KIM>I like to think, and I think it's been proven, if you actually went back and

00:39:13.700 --> 00:39:17.840
<v KIM>looked at all the clients that we built a home for, most all of them are still

00:39:17.840 --> 00:39:20.060
<v KIM>in their homes 10, 15 years later.

00:39:20.300 --> 00:39:23.780
<v KIM>So it might be a little bit different for custom. Maybe you could go 10 years

00:39:23.780 --> 00:39:25.040
<v KIM>and feel comfortable with it.

00:39:25.160 --> 00:39:29.780
<v KIM>But absolutely have your contractor and your builder get together and provide

00:39:29.780 --> 00:39:34.340
<v KIM>you kind of that analysis as far as the cost comparison and then make a smart decision.

00:39:34.560 --> 00:39:38.100
<v MELODY>So one of the things that we talked a little bit about was what we in the marketing

00:39:38.100 --> 00:39:39.540
<v MELODY>industry call greenwashing.

00:39:39.740 --> 00:39:42.560
<v KIM>Yes, greenwashing. That's what we did. We talked about that a little bit earlier.

00:39:42.660 --> 00:39:47.060
<v MELODY>Yeah. So when you think about green homes, one of the first things you think

00:39:47.060 --> 00:39:49.040
<v MELODY>about is, oh, it probably has solar panels.

00:39:49.160 --> 00:39:53.360
<v MELODY>But we have highly efficient homes, but we don't do solar technology on all

00:39:53.360 --> 00:39:56.340
<v MELODY>of them. I know Active House did have solar technology.

00:39:56.520 --> 00:40:00.080
<v MELODY>Proud Green Home had no solar technology because of the geothermal.

00:40:00.240 --> 00:40:03.660
<v KIM>It had geothermal and very, very robust insulation package.

00:40:03.980 --> 00:40:12.980
<v KIM>And I think their HERS home energy rating score, I think it had a score of somewhere in the low 40s,

00:40:13.140 --> 00:40:18.780
<v KIM>something like that, which means it was a 60 percent more efficient home than

00:40:18.780 --> 00:40:20.220
<v KIM>new homes being built today.

00:40:20.460 --> 00:40:24.360
<v KIM>And really, to your point, if we had put solar on that house,

00:40:24.400 --> 00:40:26.840
<v KIM>it could have been easily a net zero home.

00:40:27.000 --> 00:40:31.100
<v KIM>But this is where, and Chris is shaking his head because he knows where I'm going with,

00:40:31.956 --> 00:40:35.976
<v KIM>Some municipalities, especially in the St. Louis area, are very strict and they

00:40:35.976 --> 00:40:42.216
<v KIM>have no solar panel rules, which I think is, you know, not a very progressive way to think.

00:40:42.356 --> 00:40:45.896
<v KIM>But you deal a lot with municipalities, Chris, and many of them are against

00:40:45.896 --> 00:40:49.276
<v KIM>it unless they're on the back of the house or someplace where you can't see them.

00:40:49.456 --> 00:40:52.496
<v CHRIS>Yeah, that's exactly right. So when that comes into play, then that's when you

00:40:52.496 --> 00:40:57.316
<v CHRIS>start thinking about alternatives and there's more than one way to accomplish a goal, you know.

00:40:57.316 --> 00:41:01.596
<v CHRIS>So then you start looking at other alternative ways to get that energy efficiency

00:41:01.596 --> 00:41:04.896
<v CHRIS>and make that difference up in the house without maybe going through the hassle

00:41:04.896 --> 00:41:10.056
<v CHRIS>of having to deal with the municipality on approvals or locations or whatever.

00:41:10.236 --> 00:41:13.736
<v KIM>And I think you'll see more and more municipalities start to change that thinking

00:41:13.736 --> 00:41:15.316
<v KIM>as we go along a little bit.

00:41:15.556 --> 00:41:19.616
<v KIM>Another thing for, you know, the consumer to consider when thinking about solar

00:41:19.616 --> 00:41:24.396
<v KIM>panels is every state, every municipality is going to be different.

00:41:24.396 --> 00:41:29.316
<v KIM>For example, there are some states that mandate solar, California, for example.

00:41:29.636 --> 00:41:33.196
<v KIM>I think Arizona might be one of them. So there's some that are going to mandate it.

00:41:33.316 --> 00:41:38.116
<v KIM>But what they also bring to the table then are some rebates or financing that

00:41:38.116 --> 00:41:40.036
<v KIM>goes along with it that makes it affordable.

00:41:40.436 --> 00:41:45.436
<v KIM>Here in Missouri, one of the problems we have, for example, is we don't have

00:41:45.436 --> 00:41:51.076
<v KIM>– there's always federal rebates out there. But there's not much on the state or local level.

00:41:51.936 --> 00:41:56.816
<v KIM>Now, Ameren, which is our local supplier of electric, there are times when they

00:41:56.816 --> 00:41:59.876
<v KIM>have really awesome programs available, but it's kind of hit and miss.

00:41:59.956 --> 00:42:02.716
<v KIM>You have to understand when they're going to be there, when they're not available.

00:42:02.856 --> 00:42:05.796
<v KIM>I guess they have pools of money that are available at different times.

00:42:05.916 --> 00:42:10.056
<v KIM>And if you can hit it at the right time, solar makes sense because then—,

00:42:10.621 --> 00:42:14.321
<v KIM>It's affordable. So a lot of it, depending upon where you live in the country,

00:42:14.561 --> 00:42:17.121
<v KIM>depending upon, you know, the rebates available,

00:42:17.381 --> 00:42:20.581
<v KIM>whether it's through an electric company, whether it's through the state government

00:42:20.581 --> 00:42:24.241
<v KIM>or the federal government, there's a lot of variability out there that you kind

00:42:24.241 --> 00:42:27.841
<v KIM>of have to navigate to figure out if and when solar makes sense.

00:42:28.561 --> 00:42:31.921
<v CHRIS>And then I think some of that comes into play with your overall design as well,

00:42:31.941 --> 00:42:35.261
<v CHRIS>because if you do have solar, for instance, for instance, we're in a house in

00:42:35.261 --> 00:42:36.841
<v CHRIS>Ladue right now that's going to have full solar.

00:42:36.981 --> 00:42:41.361
<v CHRIS>So we actually plan that house with more electric appliances and that to take

00:42:41.361 --> 00:42:42.701
<v CHRIS>advantage of that solar benefit.

00:42:42.961 --> 00:42:47.301
<v KIM>Yeah. And to your point about planning, the design is very important,

00:42:47.301 --> 00:42:52.081
<v KIM>too, because you want to make sure that the solar panels are taking advantage

00:42:52.081 --> 00:42:55.341
<v KIM>of the southern or the western, southwestern exposure.

00:42:55.341 --> 00:42:59.661
<v KIM>And so the architect needs to know that so they make sure that they have everything,

00:42:59.661 --> 00:43:04.801
<v KIM>you know, designed properly with the layout and the roof structure and all. So a lot to think about.

00:43:05.161 --> 00:43:10.401
<v MELODY>So both homes were learning labs for University of Missouri-Columbia as part

00:43:10.401 --> 00:43:11.821
<v MELODY>of their green building curriculum.

00:43:12.001 --> 00:43:16.761
<v MELODY>And part of that was also monitoring and measuring on both homes, the performance.

00:43:16.761 --> 00:43:22.181
<v MELODY>And so with the data kind of coming into the building, home building curriculum,

00:43:22.521 --> 00:43:27.041
<v MELODY>what have you guys seen change in the years since that home has been built?

00:43:27.181 --> 00:43:30.621
<v MELODY>Do you think the data is starting to back it up locally with Missouri?

00:43:30.921 --> 00:43:35.441
<v KIM>Well, there's no doubt about it. The data is absolutely backing up the performance of these homes.

00:43:35.601 --> 00:43:40.141
<v KIM>And you heard Tui and David. They're talking about how efficient it is and how comfortable it is.

00:43:40.241 --> 00:43:42.981
<v KIM>So there's proof in the pudding. And by the way, a quick shout out,

00:43:43.161 --> 00:43:47.441
<v KIM>Matt Belcher, again, guest of the show, friend of the show.

00:43:47.641 --> 00:43:50.981
<v KIM>You've heard his name many different times, but he was instrumental in helping

00:43:50.981 --> 00:43:56.221
<v KIM>coordinate the University of Missouri, the professors, the students with both

00:43:56.221 --> 00:43:58.061
<v KIM>Active House and Proud Green Home.

00:43:58.201 --> 00:44:01.981
<v KIM>But it's exciting. The more you can have students learning and understanding

00:44:01.981 --> 00:44:05.801
<v KIM>how we're building, that's what it's going to take to have more and more people

00:44:05.801 --> 00:44:08.521
<v KIM>understand it and start believing in it.

00:44:08.521 --> 00:44:14.861
<v KIM>And it's still such a small section of the construction industry who really

00:44:14.861 --> 00:44:21.121
<v KIM>understands the benefits of it that it's really hard to make change in this industry.

00:44:21.301 --> 00:44:24.781
<v KIM>And that's why, you know, Chris and me and Jeff Bogard, who's another really

00:44:24.781 --> 00:44:26.421
<v KIM>good green builder in the St.

00:44:26.481 --> 00:44:30.721
<v KIM>Louis, high-performance builder in the St. Louis area, the more of us who do

00:44:30.721 --> 00:44:34.781
<v KIM>it, we keep thinking more are going to come on board, but we haven't found them.

00:44:34.781 --> 00:44:38.221
<v KIM>So if you have the younger generation learning, experiencing it,

00:44:38.301 --> 00:44:41.001
<v KIM>understanding it, believing in it, that's what's going to help.

00:44:41.121 --> 00:44:45.581
<v KIM>I think it's going to take in order for more and more builders and the industry

00:44:45.581 --> 00:44:47.481
<v KIM>to embrace high-performance building.

00:44:47.661 --> 00:44:50.721
<v CHRIS>It's not only measurable, but I mean, when you have our clients come back to

00:44:50.721 --> 00:44:53.141
<v CHRIS>us and, for instance, the Vandevins, when they come in and they say,

00:44:53.221 --> 00:44:57.101
<v CHRIS>hey, I moved into a house twice the size and I have less storage.

00:44:57.586 --> 00:45:01.466
<v CHRIS>energy bill. You know, when you have that real world feedback from your clients

00:45:01.466 --> 00:45:04.506
<v CHRIS>that have been in their house and, or the Chris Sallies of the world that come

00:45:04.506 --> 00:45:07.486
<v CHRIS>back to us and say, Hey, I lived in my house the whole first year and my net

00:45:07.486 --> 00:45:09.346
<v CHRIS>energy cost for the year was, what was it?

00:45:09.506 --> 00:45:13.186
<v KIM>$200 or something for the year. Yeah. And he did have solar and he,

00:45:13.206 --> 00:45:16.546
<v KIM>he really, I believe he has geothermal, if I'm not mistaken,

00:45:16.566 --> 00:45:18.606
<v KIM>but he wanted a very high performing home.

00:45:19.286 --> 00:45:24.286
<v KIM>And like Larry Vandevin, who you mentioned, they, they were living in South St. Louis County.

00:45:24.686 --> 00:45:29.986
<v KIM>They built out in the Eureka area, a home twice the size that they came out of.

00:45:30.106 --> 00:45:34.246
<v KIM>And they said that the energy bill was the same as that smaller home.

00:45:34.386 --> 00:45:36.146
<v KIM>And they were just amazed at that.

00:45:36.326 --> 00:45:41.346
<v MELODY>So my office is pretty close to Kim's. And one of the things that I get to experience

00:45:41.346 --> 00:45:45.186
<v MELODY>is kind of some of the interactions with our old clients and our new clients.

00:45:45.346 --> 00:45:48.466
<v MELODY>I have my favorite conversations that I love to eavesdrop on.

00:45:48.806 --> 00:45:52.066
<v MELODY>But one of the old clients that...

00:45:52.066 --> 00:45:55.526
<v KIM>Doug Holtzman. Yes. I knew you were going to go there. The Holtzmans, they're awesome.

00:45:55.846 --> 00:45:59.586
<v KIM>I get a text from them every single year, every year. And I'm not joking.

00:45:59.726 --> 00:46:03.586
<v KIM>We built their home 10 years ago. That seems to be the common number.

00:46:03.946 --> 00:46:06.486
<v KIM>No, we did. We built their home several years ago.

00:46:07.046 --> 00:46:10.266
<v KIM>Continually get, we are so blessed. We are so thankful.

00:46:10.466 --> 00:46:15.166
<v KIM>We love our home. And they talk about the efficiency of this home.

00:46:15.466 --> 00:46:21.786
<v KIM>And it's just so thrilling to have people recognize what we do and understand

00:46:21.786 --> 00:46:24.986
<v KIM>what we do. I just hope it becomes more mainstream.

00:46:25.206 --> 00:46:27.366
<v KIM>Now, here's part of the problem, though, Melody.

00:46:27.766 --> 00:46:32.946
<v KIM>The federal government is starting to mandate more and more about what is required.

00:46:33.266 --> 00:46:38.246
<v KIM>And a lot of these requirements that are being mandated are really starting

00:46:38.246 --> 00:46:42.086
<v KIM>to stretch the pocketbooks when it comes to the general construction industry.

00:46:42.606 --> 00:46:46.366
<v KIM>I'm a huge proponent. I've said this before on our podcast. I'm a huge proponent

00:46:46.366 --> 00:46:49.346
<v KIM>of high-performance building that is not mandated.

00:46:49.606 --> 00:46:54.646
<v KIM>I think the consumer should get a home that is safe, a home that is efficient,

00:46:54.926 --> 00:46:57.826
<v KIM>a home that is beautiful, right? Right? Clean, indoor, quality.

00:46:58.226 --> 00:47:04.726
<v KIM>But the level at which we are now being required to build homes is kind of taking

00:47:04.726 --> 00:47:10.046
<v KIM>it to a point that becomes less and less affordable. You can still provide what

00:47:10.046 --> 00:47:12.106
<v KIM>I just mentioned at a good value.

00:47:12.486 --> 00:47:17.166
<v KIM>I like the fact that our clients are coming to us and wanting the geothermal.

00:47:17.426 --> 00:47:22.766
<v KIM>They're wanting the ERVs. They're wanting the high-performing homes at the highest level.

00:47:22.946 --> 00:47:28.746
<v KIM>I think that they should have those choices and don't mandate it because you

00:47:28.746 --> 00:47:34.166
<v KIM>might not want to spend the extra $20,000, $30,000, whatever it's going to cost on these homes.

00:47:34.166 --> 00:47:38.466
<v KIM>Now, Chris will tell you, and I'll let him tell you, that the payback is there

00:47:38.466 --> 00:47:39.326
<v KIM>for the way we're building.

00:47:39.906 --> 00:47:43.206
<v CHRIS>Yeah, absolutely. It is. And we go through that when we start designing a home

00:47:43.206 --> 00:47:44.786
<v CHRIS>with a client and show them how

00:47:45.154 --> 00:47:47.334
<v CHRIS>you know, here's what we're going to spend extra on the house.

00:47:47.374 --> 00:47:49.174
<v CHRIS>Here's why we're doing it. Here's your benefit.

00:47:49.354 --> 00:47:52.074
<v CHRIS>And here's how that's going to pay for itself or how it's, you know,

00:47:52.134 --> 00:47:53.674
<v CHRIS>how long is it going to take to pay that back?

00:47:53.934 --> 00:47:57.094
<v CHRIS>You know, and I think that's maybe some of the issue with some of the mandated

00:47:57.094 --> 00:48:01.414
<v CHRIS>items are, it doesn't give you an option to, to figure out, you know,

00:48:01.494 --> 00:48:05.114
<v CHRIS>every does, every home design is different and it's not a one size fits all

00:48:05.114 --> 00:48:07.934
<v CHRIS>perfect energy plan for every home.

00:48:08.054 --> 00:48:10.354
<v CHRIS>So when you start mandating, this has to be done on every home,

00:48:10.374 --> 00:48:11.874
<v CHRIS>that doesn't always fly.

00:48:11.994 --> 00:48:14.574
<v CHRIS>It's, it's not always the most efficient way to build a particular home.

00:48:14.654 --> 00:48:15.894
<v CHRIS>And that's where you start running up costs.

00:48:16.134 --> 00:48:21.774
<v KIM>And different parts of the country. Correct. You need to have the variability to build homes.

00:48:21.794 --> 00:48:24.874
<v CHRIS>By climate zone. Absolutely. Because there are things that I would definitely

00:48:24.874 --> 00:48:28.914
<v CHRIS>recommend for a home built 500 miles north of the air that I would never do

00:48:28.914 --> 00:48:31.334
<v CHRIS>here in St. Louis because you're never going to make money on that.

00:48:31.334 --> 00:48:34.254
<v KIM>And we've tested it. I mean, you've been very proactive, Chris,

00:48:34.414 --> 00:48:38.294
<v KIM>about making sure that what we are recommending to our clients is kind of the

00:48:38.294 --> 00:48:43.214
<v KIM>minimum, the base, if you will, is also how we should be building for this market.

00:48:43.354 --> 00:48:47.754
<v KIM>And we've come to some conclusions here that allows us to save a little bit of money here or there.

00:48:47.954 --> 00:48:52.934
<v KIM>Right. And still build a very efficient home. Right. One that absolutely consumes

00:48:52.934 --> 00:48:55.034
<v KIM>less, you know, heating and cooling. Right.

00:48:55.134 --> 00:48:58.114
<v CHRIS>And we don't actually just come up with that on our own, just make that up by

00:48:58.114 --> 00:49:01.794
<v CHRIS>ourselves. I mean, we're consulting how our homes are performing. We're consulting.

00:49:02.114 --> 00:49:04.874
<v KIM>You talk to every single client and ask them that question.

00:49:05.034 --> 00:49:08.454
<v CHRIS>Absolutely. And then we also use an energy consultant here. And if we've got

00:49:08.454 --> 00:49:11.434
<v CHRIS>an idea or a question, we'll bounce it off of them and get some feedback from

00:49:11.434 --> 00:49:12.454
<v CHRIS>them on their thoughts on it.

00:49:12.594 --> 00:49:16.574
<v KIM>Do you know that the average price for our energy consultant is $900?

00:49:17.034 --> 00:49:18.254
<v MELODY>That's it. That's it. That's it.

00:49:18.670 --> 00:49:23.110
<v KIM>And they come in and they do a very thorough inspection of the insulation as

00:49:23.110 --> 00:49:24.710
<v KIM>it's installed or after it's installed.

00:49:24.910 --> 00:49:28.090
<v KIM>And then they come back at the end of the project and do a blower door test

00:49:28.090 --> 00:49:31.030
<v KIM>and tell us they can understand if there's leaks and that type of thing.

00:49:31.130 --> 00:49:33.050
<v KIM>But they'll tell us exactly how the house performs.

00:49:33.290 --> 00:49:37.150
<v KIM>So are you telling me that under $1,000 and you get the peace of mind to know

00:49:37.150 --> 00:49:38.910
<v KIM>that you've built a really good home?

00:49:39.250 --> 00:49:42.750
<v KIM>To me, it's worth it. And our clients are absolutely benefiting from that.

00:49:43.010 --> 00:49:45.050
<v MELODY>Well, that's part of the HERS process.

00:49:45.290 --> 00:49:47.510
<v KIM>Yeah, the HERS process, yeah, because we're a HERS builder.

00:49:47.510 --> 00:49:50.570
<v MELODY>Yeah. ResNet, I think, is the name of the program.

00:49:50.890 --> 00:49:55.530
<v MELODY>So, if you're looking for someone that you know is going to be performing those same kind of checks.

00:49:55.730 --> 00:49:59.030
<v KIM>Great point, because you go to their website and they have a drop-down menu

00:49:59.030 --> 00:50:00.030
<v KIM>of their approved builders.

00:50:00.330 --> 00:50:04.190
<v MELODY>And quickly, the HERS rating, I don't know that we've talked about that in a

00:50:04.190 --> 00:50:07.490
<v MELODY>while. So, if you guys want to explain the HERS process

00:50:07.490 --> 00:50:10.490
<v KIM>And what the HERS rating means. Basically, that's what I had mentioned earlier

00:50:10.490 --> 00:50:15.570
<v KIM>is when you, once you have the inspection, the blower door test,

00:50:15.750 --> 00:50:19.870
<v KIM>you're going to get the, I call it a miles per gallon sticker like you see on a car.

00:50:20.170 --> 00:50:24.010
<v KIM>I think there's going to come a day where just like automobiles,

00:50:24.190 --> 00:50:28.970
<v KIM>you're going to have a sticker on your electric panel that talks about what the HERS rating is.

00:50:29.230 --> 00:50:32.470
<v KIM>That's going to allow you to compare your home to another home.

00:50:32.730 --> 00:50:36.770
<v KIM>And right now, a code built home has the score of 100.

00:50:37.370 --> 00:50:43.290
<v KIM>An existing home, if you were to test it, would have a score of about a 140-145,

00:50:43.470 --> 00:50:48.210
<v KIM>meaning it's 45% less efficient than code-built homes today.

00:50:48.850 --> 00:50:52.630
<v KIM>Chris and I are currently building homes that range anywhere from 29,

00:50:52.630 --> 00:50:57.130
<v KIM>which is what the Thuy and David Smith's home, I think, was before solar.

00:50:57.410 --> 00:51:02.110
<v KIM>And then we've been in the upper 20s to low 40s for most of our builds.

00:51:02.290 --> 00:51:06.510
<v KIM>Now, what takes you down to net zero from there is simply the solar component.

00:51:06.770 --> 00:51:11.250
<v KIM>So if we're building homes that are 29, 30, you know, 40, 45,

00:51:11.630 --> 00:51:18.250
<v KIM>that means our homes are anywhere from 60 to 70 percent more efficient than code-built homes.

00:51:18.270 --> 00:51:22.770
<v KIM>And that's really what that RESNIT or the HERS score is all about.

00:51:22.970 --> 00:51:27.270
<v MELODY>And water usage is another component of it, too. I'm going to have a lot of resources.

00:51:27.270 --> 00:51:28.090
<v KIM>Especially out west.

00:51:28.230 --> 00:51:28.610
<v MELODY>Oh, yeah.

00:51:28.750 --> 00:51:31.870
<v KIM>You know, that's where, you know, in the northern Utah market,

00:51:31.870 --> 00:51:35.530
<v KIM>they're very concerned about water and water conservation. It goes all the way

00:51:35.530 --> 00:51:42.490
<v KIM>over into California to Colorado because that area is very conscious of dwindling reserves.

00:51:42.830 --> 00:51:48.310
<v KIM>And so, you know, if whether it's low flow fixtures or trying to capture some

00:51:48.310 --> 00:51:51.130
<v KIM>of the gray water, as they call it, or –,

00:51:51.645 --> 00:51:55.265
<v KIM>Zero scaping, you know, you're making sure that the landscape you're installing

00:51:55.265 --> 00:51:59.085
<v KIM>is tolerant for that particular part of the country or not doing turf and doing

00:51:59.085 --> 00:52:00.665
<v KIM>some other things so you don't have to water.

00:52:00.925 --> 00:52:04.765
<v KIM>There's a lot of consideration that's going on or should be going on right now

00:52:04.765 --> 00:52:07.225
<v KIM>as you're building in all parts of the country, as far as I'm concerned.

00:52:07.445 --> 00:52:11.285
<v MELODY>We're going to put some resources on the website for the podcast. You usually do.

00:52:11.505 --> 00:52:15.625
<v MELODY>Yeah, I try to be great about that. But so with both of these homes,

00:52:15.785 --> 00:52:20.945
<v MELODY>they were all measured by Department of Energy, WaterSense, Indoor Air Plus,

00:52:21.165 --> 00:52:23.665
<v MELODY>and then all built to the National Green Building standards.

00:52:24.265 --> 00:52:27.645
<v KIM>Yeah, we had several different certifications for both of those homes.

00:52:28.225 --> 00:52:31.825
<v KIM>You know, Proud Green Home had its standards and the Active House had its standards.

00:52:31.865 --> 00:52:36.005
<v KIM>But then we had dual certifications along the way, too, which is something that

00:52:36.005 --> 00:52:37.505
<v KIM>we do for many of our projects.

00:52:37.505 --> 00:52:40.845
<v MELODY>And a lot of builders across the country, if you're a high-performance builder,

00:52:41.045 --> 00:52:44.405
<v MELODY>are going to be building to these standards, but not necessarily requiring the

00:52:44.405 --> 00:52:49.105
<v MELODY>certifications that does, we had talked about earlier, take extra time and extra investment.

00:52:49.425 --> 00:52:53.605
<v MELODY>But, you know, that's how we build is, you know, if you wanted to get it measured.

00:52:53.785 --> 00:52:57.145
<v MELODY>But I'll go ahead and link to those standards from our show notes.

00:52:57.245 --> 00:53:00.425
<v KIM>Cool. It's good information. And we're not saying that you need to build a net

00:53:00.425 --> 00:53:03.525
<v KIM>zero home or we're not saying you have to go over the top. Not at all.

00:53:03.885 --> 00:53:07.285
<v KIM>If you choose to find the right builder for you, they can do it.

00:53:07.505 --> 00:53:10.645
<v KIM>We like to just make sure we're building above codes.

00:53:10.785 --> 00:53:14.065
<v KIM>We never want to be a code builder. We want to build above code,

00:53:14.545 --> 00:53:18.185
<v KIM>quality controlled, energy efficient, great indoor air quality.

00:53:18.405 --> 00:53:21.705
<v KIM>Those are the homes that we like to build as our standard home, if you will.

<v KIM>I think it's been a great episode. It was nice to have Dave and thuy come into the studio. That was a surprise. You walked in this morning and said, by the way, guess what's going to happen? I'm like, all right, bring them on. But they were fun to have. Chris, it's always nice to have you a part of the show as well.

<v CHRIS>It's always fun to talk about energy performance. Yeah.

<v KIM>Melody, what do we have coming up on episode five?

<v MELODY>So our next episode, we're going to talk about modern farmhouse versus modern mountain. So it's going to be a little bit more of a design focus. So we've got two more houses that we're going to bring you. And so if you have any questions or want to get links to past episodes, you can always go to our website. We also have a Reddit community. Art of Custom Building is our community. And you can call us at 844-HIBBS20. So, see you guys next time.

OUTRO: For more information visit www.artofcustompodcast.com or find us on Facebook and LinkedIn as The Art of Custom. Be sure to subscribe to get the latest episodes and please rate and review. The Art of Custom is produced by HugMonster sound with original music by Adam Frick-Verdeen. Thanks for listening.