S7, E2: Breaking the Midwestern Mold with MidCentury Design

SEASON SEVEN, EPISODE TWO | Podcast Episode TRANSCRIPT

KIM (00:04.238)
Well, we've done a few different projects since yours that have a little bit of the same feel, a little bit of the same vibe. But we're seeing more and more that it's starting to come into the St. Louis area.

BARBARA
Yeah, I've noticed that too.

KIM
Do you feel like you're a trend setter?

BARBARA
I am.

INTRO (00:21.078)
Welcome to the art of custom from Hibbs Homes. In this episode, we are going modern with client Barbara Bolk who talks about her mid-century modern home and the building of such a unique design in the Midwest. Next, we revisit an interview with client Amy DeSart on her build, which became a modern masterpiece. Enjoy.

KIM (00:43.586)
They say good design never goes out of style. And the two homes we're going to be talking about for stories three and four in our season of 20 stories for 20 years are really about going with your gut and designing a home that speaks to you.

That seems to be a common theme over 20 years, Melody, that people really do follow your instinct, follow your gut, and build that home that speaks to you.

So many times people try to overthink it, and I think that that can really lead to a project that you might be disappointed in.

MELODY
Well, in today's episode, we're going to shine a spotlight on two homes that made their mark on modern design here in St. Louis.

KIM
Wait a minute, wait a minute. You said modern and St. Louis in the same sentence.

MELODY
I did. I did. The thing about Barbara's home, who we're going to talk to first, it was really one of the first modern homes that came in after that Frank Lloyd Wright wave died down here in St. Louis. We have that gorgeous Ebsworth Park home that inspired the entire Sugar Creek Valley area of modern homes. And she loved those homes. And just because she wasn't building in Sugar Creek Valley, she decided, you know what, I'm going to build myself a modern home.

KIM (01:58.432)
It turns out that Barbara's office literally was right below our old office in the Chesterfield, Missouri area. She didn't even know we were there. We didn't know she was there until she was talking with somebody and was not having really good luck finding builders who she felt could build her home.

Someway, somehow, someone said, have you tried Hibbs Homes? And she said, well, I've never heard of them. So she went home, looked us up on the website and when she saw the address and figured out we were right above her, she said, that must be a sign. And then she sent me a copy of the plans and she was kind of hoping that we would be interested because it was a modern design. And I said, yeah, we can do this, problem. So those two things are really what led us to start working with Barbara, but it's gonna be fun to share her story.

We're also going to share an insightful interview with another one of our clients named Amy DeSart. who built a home a couple of years later, and it was truly a modern masterpiece.

MELODY
Yeah, and both of these homes were inspired by travel.

KIM
Yes. They both wanted that kind of hotel boutique feeling when they came home at night. Yeah. They were both awarded the Custom Home of the Year in their respective building years by the HBA because they're beautiful homes. So let's start with Barbara's recent look back at her design and build that finished up in the year 2019.

KIM (03:29.862)
What's your name again?

BARBARA
My name is Barbara Bolk.

that's right. You look vaguely familiar. So this is 20 years. We're celebrating 20 years. You've been in business a very long time.

BARBARA (03:38.872)
Congratulations, that's wonderful. Very long time, probably 37.

KIM
You lost track, I didn't. That's because we have Melody. She remembers things.

BARBARA
Right, I only have Carol.

KIM
We're actually talking about our favorite projects and obviously we love your home. We love the design. We love the style. And the funny thing about it is, that's what you were dreaming about all along, wasn't it?

BARBARA
Yes, it was. I wanted a U-shaped home with my pool in the middle so I could see it from every room.

KIM (04:07.128)
How long have you been thinking about that?

BARBARA
Gosh, 10 years, because I bought the land and then the market tank so I couldn't move. And just kind of was milling around and looking at sites all the time, wanting to decide a concept of what I wanted. And my friend's mom said to me, why don't you make a U-shaped home? And I was like, that is an amazing idea. So let's do that. I want to be able to see my pool from every room in the house, which I can, with all the windows and everything.

KIM (04:31.822)
That was your dream and that's one of the things about building a custom home is you truly can build your dream. So when you decided to, we'll talk about the U-shaped home in a little bit more in a minute, but the exterior, the kind of the design, the more modern flair, where did that come from?

BARBARA
Exactly. Well, I'm not a very girly girl, so I like the Frank Lloyd Wright look, where it's straight lines and lots of angles.

KIM
And from concept to completion, would you have done anything different with the design or are you very happy with?

BARBARA
I'm very happy with it. There are a few things that I'm like, you know, that would make more sense, but just maybe like two or three things. And actually I got one of the ideas from a house that I met you at. They had like cubby holes in their, in their extra bathroom for their pool. And I wish I had done that instead of a shower because people have nowhere to put their stuff. So I wish that's like one of the only one of the things that I would have done differently. But how do you know it when you're in the middle of it?

KIM (05:27.864)
When you started thinking about this whole project, what did you do in order to help you with the design?

BARBARA
Well, I was interviewing architects and I don't remember who gave me Jim Bujelski's phone number, but I contacted him. And when I showed him the sample kind of draft, I wanted, he took off running with it. So he knew exactly what I wanted. I told him I want to be able to that pool from everywhere and he did that for me.

KIM
Why was it important to see the pool from everywhere?

BARBARA
Because I love water. I just love to see the pretty water, the pretty blue water. You know, if I was going to spend that much money on a pool, I want to be able to see it and enjoy it.

KIM
And I remember when we first started talking about it, you were very particular about the coping and about the finish and everything of that pool because it really needed to be a certain blue.

BARBARA (06:12.652)
Right, I wanted it to be a Caribbean blue, yeah.

KIM
The other fun part about it is your bedroom, the primary bedroom. The walls are painted that color? So in other words, when you wake up in the morning, you feel like you're in the Caribbean. That's what you want.

BARBARA (06:26.348)
It's like I'm in a resort, exactly. That's exactly what I wanted, because I work hard and I wanted to feel like I was in my resort even when I'm at home.

KIM
I guess when you think back on it, is that the benefit of building a custom home is you could do things like that?

BARBARA
You can do totally what you want. It's not this cookie cutter design that everybody else has. It's exactly what you want.

KIM
Yeah. Was it a hard process?

BARBARA
It was very easy. I didn't think it was hard at all. Everybody says that. You're going to get in a good fight with your husband. It'll be a disaster. You're going to hate the builder by time it's done. I thoroughly enjoyed working with you and Neil and Chris and Natalie. You're like, I can make this happen.

KIM
And that's how I am. I can make this happen. So let's make it happen. Get it done.

And it's interesting because part of the podcast we're doing is that whenever you build a big, beautiful, large home like yours, sometimes you can actually paralyze the client because there's so many decisions, decisions overload. But I have to believe that if you do have an organized team and working at it on a kind of an organized manner, you can make it happen.

BARBARA
Totally, yeah. And I was in a rush because I had to get all my selections made before my busy season. So I was going to every little, what, vendor, whatever, picking out everything. Luckily that I had had my mind made up on a lot of stuff, how I wanted it. But it went like clockwork. Everything went like clockwork. The whole house did.

KIM
You're a CPA.

BARBARA
Yes. Yes, I am.

KIM
You're very detailed. Do you focus on the details? obviously something like that would help during this process.

BARBARA
Yeah, plus I majored in merchandising before I became an accountant. I was like, I'm very design-oriented sort of.

KIM
I did not know that. I knew you had a vision. I knew you had a dream and I knew you had a specific look for every single room, but I didn't realize that was in your background.

BARBARA
It is. That's why I knew what I wanted from the get-go.

KIM
Well, it's time to build your second home then.

BARBARA
I'm not going to go through all that. No way. You're not getting me out of that house. I love that house.

KIM
That's awesome. are the most favorite things? Beside the pool, because it is a beautiful pool. The house itself. What is your most favorite part of it?

BARBARA
My kitchen, I love my kitchen. Like I went from this teeny tiny little bit of kitchen to this huge, massive, beautiful kitchen. And I told my sister-in-law, I feel like Vanna White walking back and forth in this kitchen cooking dinner, because I go back and forth, back and forth. But my kitchen is just absolutely amazing. And so is my fireplace.

KIM
I love your fireplace. Well, actually, I like both of them. One in the living room and then one, in the game room was an extra hurry up and add this on somewhere.

BARBARA (08:58.062)
Because HOA made us, but I love both of them. I do want to tell you one thing that I got when I was having my, game room fireplace, I was having the gas logs installed. The guy who put the logs in went downstairs and he said, this is the most well-built home I have ever been in. So he told me, yeah, it was a huge compliment to you.

And you know what's interesting is we are so used to whenever somebody else comes in, they start saying, this is wrong and this is wrong and this is because they want to look like heroes to the homeowner. And so to hear that is very nice of you to share that.

BARBARA
I thought that was really nice. I said, well, thank you very much. And then I told him your name and everything. He's like, yeah, I know about Kim. There was a lot of challenges because I would go to the vendors and they would say, nobody in the Midwest wants that. Nobody in the Midwest wants that. And I'd say, well, I want it, so find it. And that was very frustrating. I like the backsplash in my kitchen is like a turquoise blue and silver. And that was impossible to find. So finally, luckily, Kim would let me do this.

But I went online and found it. Ordered it from China. It's exactly what I wanted. But all the vendors were like, nobody even with my stairwell, I remember my stairwell was so modern and contemporary. And I was like, I want it, so find it. But the stairwell was also they did a very good job on that.

KIM
It's beautiful how you pulled everything together. And what's interesting is we have, well, we've done a few different projects since yours, probably at least three, if not four, that have a little bit of the same feel, a little bit of the same vibe, not the same house, But we're seeing more and more that it's starting to come into the St. Louis area.

BARBARA (10:31.383)
Yeah.

Do feel like you're a trendsetter?

Speaker 4 (10:35.618)
Yeah, I've noticed that too. I am.

KIM
You're just always ahead of the curve, aren't you? But I would have to think that when friends and family and even people that you don't necessarily know that might come over to the house, their response has to be very gratifying because you did buck the norm and look what you ended up with.

BARBARA
Exactly. Everybody says that the design is amazing, the house is amazing, the interior is amazing. Everybody says that the backyard is lovely and it just makes me feel so accomplished that I did all that with the help of you and Jim Bujelski.

KIM
So the takeaway really should be follow your heart, build what you want, don't let people tell you.

BARBARA
Exactly. Follow what you want. And I had lots and lots of ideas that I had already come up with and I knew what I wanted.

KIM
You know, Barbara, one of the things you mentioned was the really cool staircase and the new will post the lighted new will post and how unusual it is. Yes. How did that come about? Did it start with a picture? Did you just meet with the stair contractor and

BARBARA
I don't remember who the contractor was, but he came to my office with a sample baluster, I that's what it's called, and he told me how he could put cut glass in it to match the glass that was in my bar cabinet. And then he said, and the cool thing is, is we could put these balusters at each corner and put that glass in there and then let them light up. And I was like, that is amazing, let's do that.

KIM (12:00.408)
They do beautiful work and again I'm going to fall back on the beauty of building a custom home. You can't do that if you're building production or semi-custom.

BARBARA
No, not at all. Yeah, because my brother was building at the same time as I was, at the exact same time. And he was so frustrated with his builder. He was hitting his head against the wall, constantly on with his project manager, constantly going round and round with her. And I just was like, everything's good at my house.

KIM
Because your dogs are extremely important. I mean everything from the pool and the pictures you share on Facebook and you know everything of importance with the house had the dogs in mind.

BARBARA
So the pool has a ledge in each corner so that Max can get in and out on his own because I didn't want to have to worry about him being outside. And it was funny, the first day we were out there, he looked at me like, like, I want to get in there. But I was sitting on the lounge chair and I go, if you want to get in, get in. So now he just gets in all the time by his own, swims around and then he gets back out. I turned a cabinet in the mudroom into a dog pen so that there is literally no dog pen in my house sitting out and about.

It's in a cabinet in the mud room. And he knows he has to go in there. And that's where his little bed is. And that's where he stays when I'm gone. I don't have the dog wash, but I do have a, because my dogs are teeny tiny little bitty dogs. And I do have a sink in the laundry room. And he knows that's where he gets a bath.

KIM (13:28.174)
But Melody is absolutely right. The attention that people are starting to pay to their pets is incredible. I think it's great. so many dog wash stations and things like that.

KIM (13:45.804)
Melody, it's interesting to hear how Barbara really embraced mid-century modern design in St. Louis when it was a rarity. You mentioned that, you know, kind of when we were talking during the intro, that there were not many people who were willing to go out and build that style of a home.

MELODY
The thing about it is we were talking about good design never goes out of style. I mean, it was based on a really great, very American style of design. It didn't go out of style, actually came back into style, especially in the St. Louis area.

KIM
Okay, now let's move to another inspiring project. As a matter of fact, it's an award-winning modern home that really pushed the envelope in both design and functionality. We're going to throw things back to the year 2020 in an interview with Amy DeSart, whose home is a perfect example of how builders, architects, and clients' creativity and collaboration can really lead to something truly extraordinary.

kim (14:46.574)
Well, Amy, certainly do appreciate you joining us. Take us back to the very beginning. When did you decide that maybe building a custom home was something you wanted to do? And then why did you take that leap?

AMY
You know, over the years I've lived in several different houses. I've actually built two houses that I would call more of a production type home where you have a few different styles and floor plans to choose from and get to customize a few things.

But having lived in my last home for about 18 years, I just felt as though I was ready to build a home that totally met my needs. The functionality of how I lived from day to day and having lived in a variety of homes, you get to know what you like and what you don't like. And also one of my hobbies is traveling and I've traveled all around the world. And I wanted to be able to incorporate some of the things from my travels that I loved because I always used to tell everybody when I traveled, I want to stay in a place that's better than my own house or why would I leave? Now I'm almost to the point where with this house, I'm not sure I want to leave all the time because I love it so much.

KIM
Well, it certainly is a beautiful home and I remember the design process sitting at your dining room table with the architect. What was that like and would you have done anything differently now looking back on it?

AMY (16:11.438)
I love the design process. I'm an accountant by trade and I love details. And so when we sat down, I had had a vision in my head of the floor plan that I wanted. I've been thinking about that for about five years, but I couldn't visualize what the actual house would look like. I wanted a ranch house, but I couldn't decide what should that house really look like. I liked contemporary, I liked mid-century modern. And I think

Sitting down with you and the architect and the fact that the two of you had worked together a lot, I think that was invaluable because we could go back and forth and talk about different things and what would work and what wouldn't work and how we could really design it to my personality as well as kind of make it unique. And I would say we achieved all of that through this process because I just hear from everybody that they love the design of my house and it is unique.

KIM
And I think it's important that those channels of communication making sure that the architect the homeowner and the builder are all on the same page and that's why we highly recommend trying to Put your team together up front, know, you mentioned the architect Jim Bujelski What a great guy and Jim was actually on our podcast the earlier episode where we were talking a little bit about universal design and Multi-generational home design and everything but Jim's a very talented architect

We've worked with him for many years and on many really cool projects. And so it's nice to hear you say that your friends are really complimentary of the design and how everything turned out. So that's got to make you thrilled too.

AMY (17:48.758)
And you know Jim and I totally clicked he helped create this vision and I think it was great Kim because Jim and I could get out of line a little bit on the boss part And you would step in and help us realize and understand that maybe we needed to pull back a little bit But that's what I loved about the three of us working together Is that we kept things in line with my budget, you know that I had set out upfront and that I got everything I wanted and we figured out ways to make that happen. But I do think there is this connection between the builder, the architect and the person building the

KIM
And I think, Amy, it's important to let everybody know, too, though, that, building the home, designing it, building it, it's a great process. But there are some hurdles and some challenges that come along the way. It's not all roses and sunshine and rainbows, because it is a tough process to go through. You mentioned the budget. And one of the things that I know that I try to keep my eye on during the design phase is the budget. But I also know there's so many moving parts and pieces and costs that go up and costs that go down.

that for the most part, whenever you do come out with that first round of the budget, many times you do have to go back and take a look at, OK, where can we cut from here? What can we do to simplify? Maybe we have to shrink the room a little bit. And we had to do that with your budget as well. It wasn't horrible. You were very good about it. You, being an accountant, understand the number component behind it and understand that sometimes you might have to give up a little bit. And I thought that that process

Although we did have to go through it, I thought it went pretty well.

AMY
Yeah, I would agree. I have caviar taste, I would say. And I think some of that comes from my travels and seeing the different things I wanted. But in the end, I really do feel that with our back and forth and trying to keep things in line, I still got a lot of very unique things in my house and what I would call very quality finishes.

But I did have to go back and forth because one of the problems that we ran into initially was that I purchased a home that had to be torn down and there had a swimming pool that had to be torn down. And we ran into a soil problem that nobody expected. And so that was one of the things that set me back a little bit in the beginning. And yes, I did have to go back and eliminate a couple of things that I did want upfront with my house. But overall, I think.

We came in so close to the original budget and that was really the work back and forth between you and I, Kim and your team, trying to get everything I wanted, but see where we could trim some costs in some areas.

KIM
We did. We had to work together. And I'll say it, you were very gracious about it. It worked out exceptionally well. There were some times when it got a little bit tense, but my team felt it because we knew you had a budget. We needed to meet that budget. We had a of a disconnect with the flooring at one particular time. my team actively got involved and found a solution and brought you pretty close to budget with that.

Now, it's interesting. You mentioned your swimming pool. Do you remember? This was in early winter and we demolished your house and we were getting ready to pour the foundation and we had a horrible rainstorm. so your entire hole that we dug for your foundation literally filled up with water 10 feet deep. Do you remember that?

KIM
I remember that and I said, well, maybe now I have the swimming pool and we build a pool house and I just. I know I sent you a picture and I said, you know, here's your swimming pool and you reacted very well And that's what we tried it to let people understand as far as the construction process It's a great experience, but you have to be prepared for the unknown and you just kind of have to roll with the punches

AMY
Yeah, I think that's important for people to know. I think people should understand that there's lots of decisions. So if you're not a good decision maker, it can be a little bit difficult. So there's lots of decisions along the way. I think you also have to be very flexible. I think you should know that a custom home is going to take a little bit longer to build than a production home. But when you're in it, you see the difference. And know why it takes a little bit longer because everything is finished to perfection in my mind. And that's what you're looking for when you're building a custom home.

KIM
Great point, and I'm glad you brought that up because we frequently are building homes in communities where you might have a production builder working on a home and not far away. We're working on a custom home and the production home, I'm telling you right now, is going to finish two or three months earlier because it's a totally different process. They don't have the selection process. They don't have the attention to detail. They just do it differently than you do with a custom home. So please don't expect the home to be built in the same amount of time.

What other thoughts, what other advice do you have for those thinking about possibly building a custom home?

AMY (22:46.988)
I think that you really need to have in your mind before you start what it is you want your house to at least look like on the inside. How you want to function in your house I think is a great piece of advice people should think about before you really even sit down. I also recommend again that you have a builder and architect that have worked closely together and understand the process and understand each other.

One of the other benefits that I have found is that everything in a custom home has been built with higher energy efficiency. And I've noticed that in my bills, even from my last house that was 18 years old, that my bills for my utilities has been so much less. So that's been a big benefit. And you move in and everything's ready to use. It's not like you have to fix something.

Originally, I was looking at some mid-century modern ranches and thinking about maybe just doing renovations. But as I went through that process, I came to understand fairly quickly that there was going to be so much that had to be done. And would I end up with a product as good as what a custom home would be and probably spend as much money on

So I think there's a lot of things like that that people should think about when they're looking at it. But I also think that you have to really sit down and consider what your budget truly is and allow a little extra money in that budget for anything that might pop up that is unexpected.

KIM
So Amy, I need to tell you that you built your home at the exact right time because right now with material costs right now due to the pandemic, your house, and this is no joke, would probably cost another $100,000 to build easily.

AMY 1 (24:39.562)
Yeah, we're seeing we're seeing that at the hospital and holding back actually on some things that we were going to build just because of the lumber costs. Yeah. And so yes, I did get in at the perfect time.

KIM
The lumber prices will eventually come back down for everybody who's considering building, but it is something to think about now. Maybe start the design process now and by the time you're ready to budget prices will have backed off a little bit.

I introduced you to Jim and I can tell that you and Jim hit it off right off the bat. How did you end up finding us?

AMY
I actually did a lot of research on all the builders in the area and I liked what I saw on your website. And then I remember calling and you saying that you were building a home that was a little bit more contemporary. You invited me to come out to that house before it was finished and take a look at it. And I met you and your team and I immediately felt a connection. And I left there knowing that I was going to choose you. And that's the same exact thing that happened with Jim as my architect when he sat down and started drawing out all the stuff.

And I knew immediately that you understood my vision and the house that you showed me. It was perfection in my mind as far as all the finishing touches and the way it looked. And I could tell that you were very enthusiastic about it and very interested in meeting the needs that I was looking for. So it was really just the connection that I felt. And again, the reputation that I found out that you had in the area for building such a great house.

KIM (26:20.672)
Go with your gut, it sounds like. And Amy, it truly was was one of our favorite projects. And I know Neil, our superintendent who ran your project, still talks about you. And I guess when you guys get together, you end up laughing half the time from what Neil says. So it's really been a pleasure. Thank you for joining us. Thank you for the advice that you are willing to share for our listeners. Because the custom building process can be so rewarding. But we want everybody to go in with their eyes wide open and understand rewarding? Absolutely. Do you have a few challenges along the way? Absolutely. Are there a lot of selections you've got to make along the way? 100%. But in the end, is it worth it, Amy?

AMY
Yes. Totally. I think you're exactly right. You do have to go in with your eyes wide open. But now even the challenges that we had, it's like I don't even remember them anymore, Kim.

KIM
Well that's encouraging!

AMY
I mean, because I love my house so much. I barely remember those challenges.

KIM (27:21.486)
Well, that's nice to hear. I'll go back and tell the team. Amy, it was great. Seriously, thank you so much for your time. I'm just so thrilled that you like your home because I've seen it. I've been in it since it's been finished and it's gorgeous. We're going to share some of the pictures on our show notes page. So I encourage people to go check it out because it is a very beautiful home. Lots of people talking about it. And I'm just so happy it turned out to be such a good experience for you. So thanks for your time, Amy.

KIM (27:58.488)
You know, Melody, like Kelly's house, Amy's was also written up by a local newspaper.

MELODY
And so was Barbara Bolk's.

KIM
That's true. forgot about that. Barbara's and Amy's and Kelly's, so all three of them.

They were featured in the at home section of the local paper, the St. Louis Post-Dispatch. And there are photos with the homes fully furnished and complete and interviews with both of the clients. So you can kind of hear someone else ask questions if you want to learn a little bit more.

And I would assume you can still go online and see those?

MELODY (28:32.086)
Absolutely. And we embedded the videos on our website too. and I'll link to everything in our show notes.

KIM
I know you always do such a good job with that.

MELODY
I try. I'm also going to add a modern architecture guide that we came up with at the beginning of the year and kind of keep it updated as styles change, but really see the difference between the different styles of modern architecture because it's not just mid-century modern and it's not just modern. Or it's not just mountain modern.

KIM
exactly. I really encourage our listeners, too, to follow your heart. If you want to build a more modern home, this is your chance. Don't feel like, if you're living in a part of a country that you don't see that architecture style very much, that you shouldn't do it. Because again, this is your home. Build the home you want. And if it's modern, terrific. If it's mid-century modern, great. If it's colonial, whatever. But just follow your heart.

And I would say sometimes people, you know, kind of look down on the modern farmhouse trend, but there were people who wanted to build farmhouses long before it was named by Joanna Gaines. Certain style so that, you know, it is timeless and it's beautiful. And if it's functional, you're going to love it.

kKIM (29:40.608)
Now the one thing that I do want to say though from a cost standpoint is depending upon how modern you go that can drive your construction costs a little bit because of the windows you need to use, some of the finishes on the inside, little things like that. So be aware when you talk to a builder if someone says, OK, the modern design may, and I use the word may because it's not hard and fast that they will. A lot of it's just simply going to come down to the design and a lot of the finishes. But just be prepared that. you might hear that modern designs do cost a little bit more, which is true. Sometimes

KIM
Well, and the thing is sometimes they look more simple, but when you have those more simple floor plans, you've got longer runs of electricity and plumbing and the I-beams I believe need to be steel in order to keep the floor, you know, stable and it's just it looks deceptively simple.

KIM
Okay, I guess we're gonna wrap up this episode. always, we encourage people to like us and subscribe to us. We have a lot of very good listeners who really are just awesome. And we invite people to continue to join us and continue to have fun with us and email us, right? You like to hear from some of our listeners.

MELODY
And thanks to everybody who's been sharing the podcast on Reddit, too. yeah, good point. Lots of folks have been coming over and asking questions. And that's a pretty trusted resource for finding information. So thank you if you shared us on Reddit. And if you haven't yet, consider sharing us on Reddit.

KIM (31:05.386)
And one of the things that we don't talk a lot about because we don't like to boast, but we like to do is we try to find ways to give back in the community. You know, that's important to us, right?

MELODY
Right, and not everyone has access to the same resources that all of our clients do. And so using our resources, be them intellectual or physical or labor, to give back is something that we can uniquely do.

KIM
And so it really is right when they say home is where the heart is. And that's why on our next episode, we are going to talk about Hibbs Gives. See you then.

OUTRO: For more information visit www.artofcustompodcast.com or find us on Facebook and LinkedIn as The Art of Custom. Be sure to subscribe to get the latest episodes and please rate and review. The Art of Custom is produced by HugMonster sound with original music by Adam Frick-Verdeen. Thanks for listening.